The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #121  
Old 08-14-2016, 05:12 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
They are most certainly in line for the throne.

Peter is currently 13th, his children 14th and 15th, Zara 16th and Mia 17th.

In all likelihood they won't be monarchs but they are certainly in the line of succession.
Yes I would have thought it was clear that I meant they aren't very likely to ever inherit..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Interesting, Andrew was 4th in line behind Charles, and his 4 and 2 year old nephews when made Duke. Edward was 7th behind Charles, his 17 and 15 year old nephews, Andrew and his 11 and 8 year old nieces when made earl. Proximity to throne has nothting to do with it. Zara and Peter are not working royals so there was no need. York girls, unless they are made working royals, wont either.
They are not Princes or Princesses, sons of the Monarch are usually given a title on marriage.. but not the children of a daughter..or daughters of the monarch. The York girls are princesses but they wont get titles either on marriage...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Consort Ming View Post
It does work like that sometimes when people do something to merit it as in the case of Baroness Thatcher(although that was a life peerage). Her husband was made a baronet which is a hereditary title and their son has succeeded to that title. Former prime minister Harold Macmillan was made an earl by the present queen. And the actor Laurence Olivier was made a Baron although this was, as in Margaret Thatcher's case, a life peerage.
Lots of people get peerages for special reasons, such as Politicans and many artists. But they are usually now life peerages. Diana's brother In law, Robert Fellows got a life peerage a few years ago for services to the Crown. It is possible albeit unlikely that Zara or Peter P might get such a peerage but it would be for something of their own efforts, not just because they are related to the queen.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 08-14-2016, 06:08 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Middlewich, United Kingdom
Posts: 18,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Consort Ming View Post
It does work like that sometimes when people do something to merit it as in the case of Baroness Thatcher(although that was a life peerage). Her husband was made a baronet which is a hereditary title and their son has succeeded to that title. Former prime minister Harold Macmillan was made an earl by the present queen. And the actor Laurence Olivier was made a Baron although this was, as in Margaret Thatcher's case, a life peerage.
They all received their peerage "granted" by The Queen but chosen by Parliament for serving their Public Office. LO was given his Uncle's Baronetcy who was governor of Jamaica (the Baronetcy became extant as Sydney Olivier only had daughters).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Lots of people get peerages for special reasons, such as Politicans and many artists. But they are usually now life peerages. Diana's brother In law, Robert Fellows got a life peerage a few years ago for services to the Crown. It is possible albeit unlikely that Zara or Peter P might get such a peerage but it would be for something of their own efforts, not just because they are related to the queen.
Since 2010 no artist has been given a life peerage, they are primarily for politicians.

Robert Fellowes was Private Secretary to The Queen for nine years. He'd been in the royal household since 1977. He also has a significant impact on several charitable causes being company director, and a trustee of the Rhodes Trust, the Mandela Rhodes Foundation and the Winston Churchill Memorial Trust.

In all honesty Zara and Peter have done barely anything to deserve anything other than the awards they have already received. Neither of them are significant in any field to warrant anything more than an MBE/CBE/OBE.
__________________

__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 08-14-2016, 06:14 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,907
well perhaps time to get rid of honours for politicans (bit of an oxymoron). I don't think that Z or Peter will get peerages, as I said, but I said it was possible.. and if so, they would get them on their onw merits, not because they were related to the queen... which Is what would have been the case Had Mark Philips accepted a title
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 03-16-2018, 04:51 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 13
How does not having a title help Zara?

I can understand that being a Princess would mean she officially represents the royal family, but how would having a title like Lady stop Zara from doing what she does now? She said that she was able to have her career as she wasn't Lady Zara or something like that.
I've been reading about other members of the nobility working in business and sporting roles. Being lord/earl didn't stop them, so how would a title stop Zara?
Is it because a title like Earl/Lady given by the Monarch is different from one inherited by aristocrats?
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:04 PM
CyrilVladisla's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 3,763
It seems that a title like Lady Zara would not prevent Zara from what she is doing now. She would still be an equestrian. In some instances she might be more identified because of her title of Lady. However, have not people recalled that she is the daughter of a Princess, the daughter of The Princess Anne, or the daughter of The Princess Royal?
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:16 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 1,364
Had Mark been made an earl with a barony or viscountcy (is that the right word?) As a secondary title, the main difference would be for Peter. Instean of 'Peter Phillips' he would have been Baron/Viscount X and at some point Earl Y. I agree that for Zara being a lady would not really have made a difference.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:30 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Had Mark been made an earl with a barony or viscountcy (is that the right word?) As a secondary title, the main difference would be for Peter. Instean of 'Peter Phillips' he would have been Baron/Viscount X and at some point Earl Y. I agree that for Zara being a lady would not really have made a difference.
But would that have stopped him from having a career?
It seems there are many aristocrats taking advantage of commercial opportunities, so what would have stopped Peter?
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:35 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 13
Did the Queen really offer to make them Prince and Princess?
Or was it a courtesy title on offer if their father had a title?

They keep talking about how they are grateful to not have a title as it would have stopped them from doing what they do now, but I can think of a prominent nobleman who was a racing car driver and had sponsos (Henry, Earl of Arundel and future Duke of Norfolk https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-a...-of-the-castle). If he could have pursued sports, I don't really get what would have stopped her.
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:35 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 6,911
Different people have different views on it. I know the son of a hereditary peer who stopped using his courtesy title years ago.

He says it changes how people view him and the snobs who want to be around him just because of a title.

Zara is probably glad she has no title as she seems like a no nonsense kind of person.
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:36 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Different people have different views on it. I know the son of a hereditary peer who stopped using his courtesy title years ago.

He says it changes how people view him and the snobs who want to be around him just because of a title.

Zara is probably glad she has no title as she seems like a no nonsense kind of person.
Just out of interest, who was the person who stopped using his title?
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:44 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 6,911
Someone I worked with when my family lived in England. No one you’ve even remotely heard of. You’d have to search his name if I told And I won’t. Privacy.

He’s not alone though. A lot of aristocrats use professional names. Depending on what you do for a living titles maybe a little too grand for some.
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:46 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Someone I worked with when my family lived in England. No one you’ve even remotely heard of. You’d have to search his name if I told And I won’t. Privacy.

He’s not alone though. A lot of aristocrats use professional names. Depending on what you do for a living titles maybe a little too grand for some.
Oh ok; I thought it was someone famous.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:53 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 6,911
A lot of aristocrats work at regular jobs. Especially the sons daughters and grandchildren.

Yet some are entitled to some pretty extravagant courtesy titles that seem somehow out of place.

Zara would have made a go of it no matter if she was Lady or princess but I wager she’s glad to be just plain Zara
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:55 PM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 7,559
It is interesting to think about "what if" but can you really imagine Anne wanting her husband to have a third-grade title when she, a hereditary blood princess of the UK cannot hand a title on to her children?

Princess Anne is the daughter of a Queen and the granddaughter of a King yet her situation is dictated by her marriage, just as her nieces Beatrice and Eugenie, the granddaughters, of the Queen are.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 03-16-2018, 06:06 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
A lot of aristocrats work at regular jobs. Especially the sons daughters and grandchildren.

Yet some are entitled to some pretty extravagant courtesy titles that seem somehow out of place.

Zara would have made a go of it no matter if she was Lady or princess but I wager she’s glad to be just plain Zara
The Daily Mail royal correspondent said that she wouldn't be able to do what she does if she'd been a Princess. Not sure how true that is.
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 03-16-2018, 06:20 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 1,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosena6 View Post
The Daily Mail royal correspondent said that she wouldn't be able to do what she does if she'd been a Princess. Not sure how true that is.
I don't see how it could be true. Princess Anne competed in the Olympics and she owns a Horse eventing business despite being the daughter of the Queen.
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 03-16-2018, 06:54 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 1,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
It is interesting to think about "what if" but can you really imagine Anne wanting her husband to have a third-grade title when she, a hereditary blood prince of the UK cannot hand a title on to her children?

Princess Anne is the daughter of a Queen and the granddaughter of a King yet her situation is dictated by her marriage, just as her nieces Beatrice and Eugenie, the granddaughters, of the Queen are.
Well, her aunt did just that only 13 years earlier and Anne grew up in an environment and with a father who was very explicit about the issue that titles were inherited in male-line (hr mother was the unwanted exception because she didn't have a brother), so I don't think it would have passed her mind that she should be able to pass on her own title.

If her husband would have received a title it would precisely be because of her, so her children's titles would receive titles because of who their mother was; had their father married someone else his children would be titleless for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 03-16-2018, 07:03 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 11,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosena6 View Post
Just out of interest, who was the person who stopped using his title?
No one stopped using their title. The way things work in the UK, the title of "princess" is passed down through the male line of descendants from the monarch. That is why Prince Andrew's daughters are Princesses of the UK and Princess Anne's children born without the title of Prince and Princess.

At the time of their marriage, Captain Mark Phillips was offered a title where, if he had accepted, his sons and daughters would have titles from their father. He declined and Anne and Mark's children had no titles at all.

Another example would be Princess Margaret's marriage to Anthony Armstrong Jones. Upon their marriage, Armstrong Jones was created the Earl of Snowdon and hence his children took their titles from their father.
__________________
I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 03-16-2018, 07:23 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,907
Tony ArmstrongJones was only given a title after his marriage, when Margaret was pregnant..
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 03-16-2018, 07:48 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 11,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Tony ArmstrongJones was only given a title after his marriage, when Margaret was pregnant..
Ah... thanks much for the correction on that m'friend.
__________________

__________________
I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.

~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
peter phillips, styles and titles, zara phillips


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Titles of the Wessex Children acdc1 The Earl and Countess of Wessex and Family 240 03-22-2018 12:08 PM
Captain Mark Phillips and Family iowabelle The Princess Royal and Family 139 08-19-2017 06:01 PM
Zara Phillips Picture Thread photofan The Princess Royal and Family 80 03-21-2017 07:54 PM
Peter Phillips Picture Thread kelly1972 The Princess Royal and Family 23 04-08-2014 11:20 PM




Popular Tags
art book camilla chris o'neill crown princess elisabeth crown princess victoria crown princess victoria hats current events family fashion felipe vi general news hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume hereditary prince alois infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta sofia interests iñaki urdangarín king carl gustaf king felipe king felipe vi king philippe king willem-alexander letizia meghan markle news pablo urdangarín piromallo porphyria prince charles prince daniel prince gabriel prince harry prince harry of wales prince jean prince nicholas prince oscar prince sebastian princess alexia princess beatrice princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess of asturias princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen margerthe queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima casual wear royal ancestry royal geneology royal wedding smith soderberg state visit stephanie sweden swedish royal family tiara tony armstrong-jones victoria video games wedding



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:29 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018
Jelsoft Enterprises