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  #101  
Old 02-10-2009, 03:05 PM
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These religious requirements seem to me to be utterly outdated and inappropriate to the multifaith nations of today.
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  #102  
Old 02-10-2009, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Duchess Ravenna View Post
These religious requirements seem to me to be utterly outdated and inappropriate to the multifaith nations of today.
I agree to some point. However, you have to agree that an Eastern Orthodox couldn't be Head of the Church of England/Denmark/Norway. It's also unimaginable that a descendant of the Sun goddess (i.e. The Emperor of Japan; legendary) follows any religion other than Shinto.

Anyway, when most members of the royal family follow the state religion, the monarchy is safer.
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  #103  
Old 10-16-2009, 08:05 AM
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I understand the need to change their denomination where the spouse will become head of the state Church however, I do not believe that it was any big deal to make that choice. Presbyterian to Lutheran, Greek Orthodox to Church of England etc. They are all just that, denominations.

Where someone changes from Roman Catholic to Church of England it is a big deal. Even if we've been born RC or Protestant and never seen the inside of a church since our respective Baptisms, it suddenly raises it's ugly head and we have to make a choice. I believe Autumn fell into this category.

Personally I am not a little amused at the similarity of the order of service and liturgy between our local RC and Anglican Churches.
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  #104  
Old 10-17-2009, 06:41 AM
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The reason for any similiarities rests with Elizabeth I and her compromise over religion.
The ligurgy isn't a problem but more central beliefs at the core of the teachings - Papal Infallibility and Transsubstantation are too different for the two branches of Christianity to come together in the foreseeable future in my opinion.
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  #105  
Old 01-21-2010, 07:41 PM
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It`s so far the probability that Peter Phillips could be King Of England.
No one can ever be "King of England" anymore. That title hasn't existed since 1801. However, he could be King of Great Britain & No. Ireland
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  #106  
Old 03-06-2010, 12:28 PM
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I have read this whole thread through - which I have just belatedly discovered! Being a fairly unreligious person (I think many of the world's troubles over the centuries have been caused by too many bigoted people trying to force their religion onto other people) I can't really see why everyone is so upset at Autumn converting to CofE. It makes sense both on a personal level (all the family being the same religion) and on a national level (respects Peter's family's traditions/the law of the country they live in).

No-one made any fuss when Pss Muna al Hussein converted to Islam, or later Queen Nur did so. Jordan is a Muslim country and the people would have been outraged if they had not. It was taken in its stride when Pss Sophia of Greece changed from Greek Orthodox to RC when she married Pr Juan Carlos (and Queen Victoria's granddaughter Pss Ena converted when she married King Alfonso). I am not sure if there is a law as such in Spain, but it would be inconcievable for a Protestant/Orthodox/Muslim/Jewish King or his consort to sit on the throne of Their Most Catholic Majesties. I also remember CP Felipe having to give up his Norwegian girlfriend because she was not Catholic, Pr Jean of France having to give up his German fiancee because she was not Catholic, and A/D Karl of Austria's wife Francesca having to convert to RC before she married. And the latter two families are not even ruling. (A/D Georg of Austria did marry a German Protestant, but there was a bit of an outcry about that, and the children had to be RC.)

The point I am making is that it is traditional for people marrying into Royal Families to convert to the faith of that family/country. It shows respect for the traditions of that country, and love for the person they are marrying. I am very surprised at some of the personal criticism that is being level at Autumn in this thread.
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  #107  
Old 03-06-2010, 12:41 PM
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Well said, Alison20! To add to the list, both Mary and Marie of Denmark converted to the Lutheran Church in conjunction with their marriages, I believe.
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  #108  
Old 03-06-2010, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Alison20 View Post
The point I am making is that it is traditional for people marrying into Royal Families to convert to the faith of that family/country. It shows respect for the traditions of that country, and love for the person they are marrying. I am very surprised at some of the personal criticism that is being level at Autumn in this thread.

Very well said Alison. Your thought are just common sense.
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  #109  
Old 03-07-2010, 05:40 AM
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Well said, Alison20! To add to the list, both Mary and Marie of Denmark converted to the Lutheran Church in conjunction with their marriages, I believe.
Very well said indeed! However, Mary only changed denomination. She did not "Convert". There is very little difference between Protestant denominations that came out of the Reformation. Liturgical not Doctrinal as is the case between the Protestant and Roman Catholic Churches.

So, while it is true that Autumn converted, Mary did not.
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  #110  
Old 07-16-2010, 01:07 AM
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I think that it is sad that the British monarchy still has this rule, renounce Catholicism or your spouse will lose their place in line to the throne. Such prejudice. Henry VII started all this mess with his adultery.
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  #111  
Old 07-16-2010, 02:41 AM
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I think that it is sad that the British monarchy still has this rule, renounce Catholicism or your spouse will lose their place in line to the throne. Such prejudice. Henry VII started all this mess with his adultery.

It was Henry VIII who separated the Church in England from the Roman Catholic church but it was the Parliament of the day, in 1701 that passed the legislation in order to prevent the Roman Catholics and thus the Pope from getting a hold of England and Scotland again after the Glorious Revolution of 1688 and the failure of Mary II, Queen Anne and William III to produce legitimate protestant heirs. It was necessary to remove the 50+ people with better blood claims than George I (or actually his mother at the time although she had died before acceeding to the throne) claiming the throne.

Britain is more liberal than other royal houses where the spouse has to be of the official faith e.g. Mary had be become Lutheran rather than remain Presbyterian but had she married William she wouldn't have had to do so.
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  #112  
Old 07-16-2010, 05:18 AM
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I think that it is sad that the British monarchy still has this rule, renounce Catholicism or your spouse will lose their place in line to the throne. Such prejudice. Henry VII started all this mess with his adultery.
It's the way the royal family works, and it suits them so it's fine. They have had no problems with it.
And it was Henry VIII.
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  #113  
Old 07-16-2010, 06:58 AM
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It crosses my mind whether all those who were outraged/upset at Autumn changing to C of E are going to be similarly outraged/upset that Charlene Wittstock will have to become Catholic to marry Albert II. I will accept change in the UK system (which has worked and kept the peace for centuries) when there is change in places like Monaco and Spain. As things stand, the Royal Families in almost all countries mainly have the religion of the majority of the people. Until you take religion out of all the major celebrations and events in countries, these should be celebrated in the way most people are comfortable with.
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  #114  
Old 07-17-2010, 06:28 AM
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Who was outraged/ upset when Autumn converted?
And who says any of the people who knew about Autumn's conversion even care about Charlene.
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  #115  
Old 07-17-2010, 09:38 AM
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Well, I spent a lot of time reading the whole of this thread and I certainly got the impression that a lot of people were upset and even outraged that she should have been 'forced' to convert. It is of course possible that I have misunderstood several postings. It is also true that many people who are interested in Autumn are not interested in Charlene. But it struck me that the information that Charlene had converted to RC was just accepted as normal, and no-one queried it. I wondered why, as I feel that 'what is sauce for the goose should also be sauce for the gander'. :-)
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  #116  
Old 07-17-2010, 10:57 AM
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You make very valid points Alison20...and you are correct in assuming that any of the posts in the previous five pages could be construed as outrage, disgust and frankly not undertsanding the reasons why Autumn converted. Its a personal decision that was her and hers alone to make. And if she is okay with that, than that should be the end of the discussion.

Also, it is extremly important to remember all the others royals who converted as well.

I think, however, the outrage has more to do the fact that if Autumn had remained a Roman Catholic Peter would have lost his place in succession. Which let's face it, with 10 other people in front of him, I am not sure it would have made such a difference.

The fact that is if he had married an Muslim, an atheist or any other religion it wouldn't have a been a big deal, and that is my problem with the law. But I am not a British citizen, a Catholic nor am I in the running to marry any one on the list of succession so I guess it doesnt matter what I think :)
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  #117  
Old 07-17-2010, 10:57 AM
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Well i'm sure she wasn't forced, if she did not want to convert then i'm sure that Peter would have given up his place in line for the throne.
It's possible because Charlene is converting to Roman Catholicism am I right? Where as Autumn converted to Anglicanism?
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  #118  
Old 07-17-2010, 11:05 AM
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Well it would be hard to compare Great Britian with Monaco but is there any law in Monaco that says that Princes cant be married to non Catholics?

I would say that main issue with Autumn converting that it implies that the law discriminates against those who marry Catholics and not those who marry other religions.
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  #119  
Old 07-17-2010, 11:13 AM
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Well if Charlene's converted, that would mean you would have to be Catholic to marry, wouldn't it?
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  #120  
Old 07-17-2010, 11:21 AM
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Charlene's conversion could be many things...it could be that she wants to share the same religion as her husband, that she wants any children to be raised in the Catholic faith like her husband....it doesn't necessarily mean that if she doesn't convert Albert will lose his throne.
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