Autumn Kelly Converts: Peter Phillips Keeps Place in Succession May 2008

[Lady Bluffton]

Maybe this has something to do with the talk of switching the succession rules to a non-primogeniture system...if so, then Anne's children would be up after Charles'? Peter would be # 5 (Princess Bea's # if I'm not mistaken) if that came to pass. (Of course, the law would have to be retroactive to the direct issue of QEII.)

[sirhon11234]

I'm dissapointed that she made this decision; no one should give up their faith to marry the person they love.
IMO that Act should be done away with.

[lallyvee]

Hasn't she been living with him for some time? The Catholic Church frowns on that. I doubt if she was very religious to begin with so converting was no big deal.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by jcbcode99

Here is what I think--and I may well be completely wrong--but Peter had declined the offer of a title from his grandmother, but now he's getting married, going to have some children, etc...and his grandmother is getting up in years. Perhaps he's a bit nostalgic, perhaps he wants to pass something down to her children, so he's opted for a title--maybe Earl of something like that. I think it is a possiblity that he has changed his mind.

I was wondering the same thing. The fact Autumn converted certainly makes it easier for The Queen to create Peter an Earl on his wedding day. Perhaps Earl of Sussex?

[Al_bina]

So far neither him nor Zara wanted to have any titles. Well... perhaps, Ms. Kelly has been successful in her attempts to persuade him into accepting a title ... It remains to be seen whether or not Peter Philips will accept a title as a wedding gift from his grandmother.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Lady Bluffton

And for those who are "ostracized" within the Royal Family because of their different faith -- what a disgrace. I expect more out of a family that once prided itself on ruling an empire on which the sun never sat, and which was populated by a majority of non-Anglicans.

No doubt others will disagree, but that's my two cents.

1. noone ever was ostracized from the family's side because of their faith. It was a political decision to begin with andit has been one ever since. There are laws even the Rf has to obey and this is one of them, forced on them by "the people" aka parliament.

2. It was not this family, but a member of the Habsburg-family called emperor Charles V. who through his father inherited the Germanic empire and through his mother Spain including all Spanish colonies around the world who could have prided himself of this but never did. The British empire, while far-fetched, never really span the whole world, as this only worked because the pope had once devided the unknown world between Spain and Portugal, so they in fact "ruled" round the world. Britain's empire had quite some "spare" areas where the sun could have set.

[Lemon Lyman]

Originally Posted by branchg

I was wondering the same thing. The fact Autumn converted certainly makes it easier for The Queen to create Peter an Earl on his wedding day. Perhaps Earl of Sussex?

I agree too.

Although from what I gather she isn't a practising Catholic - it was confirmed that she was christened, but no mention of First Holy Communion and Confirmation. So it might be that she was only catholic because that's where her parents chose to have her baptised. So this may not be a big decision.

I am Catholic and went to the village COE school and had no problems. I'm being godmother in a few weeks time in a COE church is that you have to be christened COE, COS, Catholic, Methodist or Baptist (ie Christian Faith).

My father is not catholic (and my mum's brother in law) and my parents got married in a catholic church in 1976. My father didn't convert - they just had to agree to raise us catholic.

Someone said something about Princess Anne not liking COE and preferring COS (as she had her second marriage in COS). When she was married for the second time COE frowned appon marriages of divorcees where as the COS didn't. So to have a religious service - which was expected due to the Queen being Head of COE - the only choice was Scotland.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by jcbcode99

Here is what I think--and I may well be completely wrong--but Peter had declined the offer of a title from his grandmother, but now he's getting married, going to have some children, etc...and his grandmother is getting up in years. Perhaps he's a bit nostalgic, perhaps he wants to pass something down to her children, so he's opted for a title--maybe Earl of something like that. I think it is a possiblity that he has changed his mind.

I didn't know he had declined a title, I do know his mother declined titles for her children when they were born.

[Lemon Lyman]

Originally Posted by Skydragon

I didn't know he had declined a title, I do know his mother declined titles for her children when they were born.

That was my understanding.

Just a thought do you think in years to come when William is on the throne he will carry out some engagements (thinking her could be 50-60 by then) on behalf of William. William and Harry are going to need support in there future roles.

[pamk]

Originally Posted by Lemon Lyman

That was my understanding.

Just a thought do you think in years to come when William is on the throne he will carry out some engagements (thinking her could be 50-60 by then) on behalf of William. William and Harry are going to need support in there future roles.

I totally agree. When Princess Anne married Mark Philips a title was offered to Mark and he declined it at Anne's urging. I bet Mark Philips is sorry that he didn't have a title when he and Anne divorced. I think that the decision for the children - Peter and Zara - was made by Anne when they were very young.

Now that Zara and Peter are all grown up, I think that they have realized that in the real world a title can smoothe a lot of the hardships of everyday life. Peter is in business - banking, I think - and a title would certainly add a lot of cache to his working life.

[pamk]

Also, I am of the Episcopal Church (Church Of England in the USA) - it's not much different from the Catholic Church. We just don't recognize the Pope.
Shouldn't be too much of a switch for Autumn.

[Zonk]

I agree with the sentiment that religion is a very personal choice and therefore we don't the reasons why Autumn decided to renounce her faith and join the Church of England. What we do know is that she will never speak.

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion but I wonder if everyone felt the same way when Katharine, Duchess of Kent converted to Catholicism? In my opinion, anyone who is brought up with a particular religion (and that is all they know) and decides to point change religions...means that the new religion was able to provide some comfort, some solace and maybe a new outlook on their relationship with God that they other one could not. Or....maybe that they were not that religious from the get go but their new spouse was and they wanted to share that with them. For that...I think about Elizabeth Taylor ( I know... not a great example) but she loved Eddie Fisher and converted to Judiasm for him.

I won't even touch the Act of Settlement...I think its archiac and discriminatory but that is up to the English government to change it.

[iowabelle]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

So IMHO she simply wanted to respect her
husband's heritage and did what she could do to protect it.

So, what about Autumn's heritage? I'm rather disappointed in her for doing this.

And I think it doesn't agree with the original intent of the law (once a Catholic, always a Catholic... and thus a pernicious influence on the Royal Family -- yes, I'm being sarcastic). Lest you all think I'm goofy for saying that, I spent five years in grad school studying Tudor and Stuart history.

If nothing else, the law should be changed.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Lemon Lyman

That was my understanding.

Just a thought do you think in years to come when William is on the throne he will carry out some engagements (thinking her could be 50-60 by then) on behalf of William. William and Harry are going to need support in there future roles.

Princess Anne and Mark Phillips were definitely in agreement that both Peter and Zara should be allowed to have a normal childhood without the burden of being royal and carrying titles, which The Queen reportedly offered on several occasions.

Given that decision, I imagine Peter would be open to a peerage, probably an earldom, but it certainly could be a dukedom as well, now that he is marrying and likely planning to have children, but he may wish to respect his parents' original decision and decline it.

I doubt the question of public duties has come up, given the number of currently active royals and his desire to continue working and earning money.

[Lady Bluffton]

By the way, as an aside, my feelings about Ms. Kelly's pre-marital conversion are the same regarding Marie Cavallier's renunciation of Catholicism for Lutheranism. Seems to be opportunistic rather than spiritually motivated.

Shame, shame.

[Al_bina]

You are quite harsh in your judgments, Lady Bluffton. Show me a woman, who can refuse temptations of having a title. Yes, Ms. Kelly seems a bit opportunistic, but I see nothing wrong with it.

[GlitteringTiaras]

Originally Posted by pamk

Also, I am of the Episcopal Church (Church Of England in the USA) - it's not much different from the Catholic Church. We just don't recognize the Pope.
Shouldn't be too much of a switch for Autumn.

Very true.

I suspect that she wasn't much of a practicing Catholic in the first place, so if she wanted to join the CoE then so be it. No harm, no foul. It's her choice in the end, not yours. Her choice does not affect anyone or disrupt their daily lives because of it.

If Autumn is happy and comfortable with her decision then I'm happy for her.

[Nad25]

I dont think any princess so far has been knowing for their strong believes in any faith they follow.

They just follow what it needs to be done,whatever Church their future husband belongs to they convert,easy as that!

[Next Star]

I am surprised by this decision because Peter is so far down in the line of succession to the throne.But Kelly has made her choice she chose to covert to the church of England.

[Duchess]

perhaps it had nothing to with succession. maybe it had to do with the fact that they want to raise any children they may have in the CoE.