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  #161  
Old 04-27-2006, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudia
I am not against divorce, but I don´t want a queen of Spain to be divorced.
I think that royals should live for their countries, served their countries and represents their countries, by the other hand they have a life with privileges.
It's interesting that you present a contradiction in your post, saying that you have nothing against divorce, but you're not pleased that the future Queen of Spain is a divorcee.

When Letizia married Alonso Guerreiro, she did after almost ten years of relationship. She wasn't royal or even a member of aristocracy back then. Royals are human as we are and allowed to make mistakes.

About your second sentence, I firmly believe that, not only Letizia and Felipe, but the whole spanish royal family, hasn't ceased to prove us day in, day out that they work very had for their country, promoting it in a very positive way around the world.

It still fails me to realize why Letizia should have been not allowed a second chance in love. As Elsa stated a few posts above, being a divorcee or not is not what defines your character and the kind of person that you are.
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  #162  
Old 04-27-2006, 10:13 AM
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Very acurate answer Ana_R; I think, it's obvoius, that claudia don't appreciate Letizia and mainly has a very anachronic view of royal function today. What does mean "privileges" ?
It's finish the time when kings ang princes have life right on his serfs, you know! The presidents of the Republic have privileges too.
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  #163  
Old 04-27-2006, 09:51 PM
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Talking

You are right Adelaide, I don´t like Letizia.
It is not a contradiction, the Prince should have resing to his title when he married Letizia, that is all. I know I will be hated for saying this.
By the way I want to congratulate this great forum where we can say what we think or feel and we are not "delete" . Thank you´s to the moderator and to the members, you are all so polite and gentle even with me when I say what I think.
:)
THANK YOU.
  #164  
Old 04-27-2006, 10:51 PM
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Anna, I think claudia is saying that she accepts divorce, but just not for the wife of Felipe.

I've heard that mentioned in other royal circles so I don't think its confined to Spain. The rationale is that because the position is a consort of a future head of state, a prior failed relationship increases the chance that someone with personal details of the previous relationship might try to embarass the Princess and by doing so, her husband. It hasn't happened with Letizia but I believe it did happen with Mette-Marit.
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  #165  
Old 04-27-2006, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
The rationale is that because the position is a consort of a future head of state, a prior failed relationship increases the chance that someone with personal details of the previous relationship might try to embarass the Princess and by doing so, her husband. It hasn't happened with Letizia but I believe it did happen with Mette-Marit.
In Mette-Marit's case, her father was an even worst enemy than any ex-boyfriend could've been!

I think that as any of the crown princes have not married very young (say in their early 20s), and are also marrying women close to their ages (in their early 30s), there is some expectation that the women (like the princes) have a past and have had relationships. I think it's only a matter of how much it matters to the people of the monarchy the princess represents. That Mary lived with someone for several years before meeting Frederik seems to be a non-issue in Denmark, but in Spain Letizia's previous marriage is quite an issue.

And that in this day and age when the media (tabloids) will pay for private pictures (eg. pictures of Sophie on a trip with her friends that were semi-nude or pictures of Mette-Marit partying) of the commoner princesses, nobody will be perfect and the dirt can be endless if the price is high enough, sadly.
  #166  
Old 04-28-2006, 12:24 AM
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So would it be more acceptable if Letizia simply lived with her ex for years and just didn't marry him? Or Claudia would like a virgin bride at 30+ years old? If it's former, does it mean "living in sin" is better than someone who married but the marriage failed and the failure might not even be her fault? If it's latter, potential candidates for princes shrink down significantly.
  #167  
Old 04-28-2006, 01:32 AM
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I think the issue here is not if Letizia was a divorcee or not. Mette, Maxima and Camilla all had scandalous pasts whether due to themselves, their parents or the history with their husbands. However one thing which stands out that each one of them had to acknowledge it. On their engagement Mette in a televised speech accepted her wild past, Maxima distanced herself from her father's career and choices. In Charles and Camilla's case, Charles publicly accepted his adultery and camilla did not get a church wedding. The fact that Felipe sprung on the Spanish people the news of their engagement straight on was as good as dumping her on them.

Many will argue that this is a Spanish tradition, however for Elena her association with Jaime goes back to 1987 and Christina is even further in line to the throne. The only other crown princess to be introduced this way was Mathilde but hardly any of phillipe's relationships have been conducted as openly as Felipe had with Eva. And for mary she had to face scrutiny for two years least before she became the royal fiancee and accepted in the official documentary that she had a relationship of 7 yrs. I believe that if Felipe did not have any problems in displaying his past loves, there should not have been in the one who became his wife.

What I therefore dislike about Felipe and Letizia is the hypocritical approach they have adopted. No acknowledgement from her about her past and all of a sudden a strong spiritual awakening. For a women who after a long courtship had a civil wedding. Don't ge me wrong. In my book it is perfectly ok to be not religious. Look at maxima she still practices her old faith. What is more important is honesty to yourself about who you are. And also a white wedding in a catholic country.
  #168  
Old 04-28-2006, 03:44 AM
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1. They acknowledge her former marriage in their OWN official webpage, no one ever tried to hide that fact, she was famous on her own before Felipe so everybody knew
2. The religion issue: all Royal Houses prefer to have a consort who shares the Monarch religion; for example in Denmark Henrik, Alexandra andMary all had to convert to luteranism; Letizia was born and raised catholic, she just chose not to practice for a while, all she had to do for her catholic wedding was to get confirmed, I don't see what's the problem, you don't see her kissing saints everywhere or go to mass every sunday, she just took what she needed to get married and that's all!
3. Felipe didn't go to Charles' wedding for several reasons:
a) he isn't as closely blood related to him as Haakon is
b) I don't think the SRF approved C&C infidelity or more than that is that they let themselves get caught so I don't think that it was approved
c) Letizia's divorce cannot be compared to their divorces: neither her or her first husband were unfaithful for 10+ years, so Felipe didn't have to prove anything to C&C or to support the idea of divorced people get married again
d) her first wedding was a civil one, the Roman Catholic Church doesn't think of that as a "real" wedding, so in their eyes it was like she was getting married for the first time, unlike C&C who were both married by the church the first time

To the Mods and Admins: I didn't wanted to get into comparisons I just wanted to reply to this post and I'll get back on topic, thank you very much for your understanding and for not deleting my post
  #169  
Old 04-28-2006, 04:19 AM
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There are many things about royals that we dont know and the mayor part of those things are for sure part of their private life. The reasons of why they do or dont do certain things do not belong to us to know. Their lifes are not perfect as they are human beings like the rest of us. We better do not judge them just based on false images, rumors or impresions. We better do not judge anyone at all. Letizia and other princesses who got married with heir to the thrones, have very intense lifes, full of obligations and commitments, they haven't born on those families, they needed and still need to learn a lot about their new status and life, so we better give them a chance as it is a great accomplishment what all of them have done so far.
  #170  
Old 04-28-2006, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel
There are many things about royals that we dont know and the mayor part of those things are for sure part of their private life. The reasons of why they do or dont do certain things do not belong to us to know. Their lifes are not perfect as they are human beings like the rest of us. We better do not judge them just based on false images, rumors or impresions. We better do not judge anyone at all. Letizia and other princesses who got married with heir to the thrones, have very intense lifes, full of obligations and commitments, they haven't born on those families, they needed and still need to learn a lot about their new status and life, so we better give them a chance as it is a great accomplishment what all of them have done so far.
Very good analysis. I think we have to have at the spirit it's not a sinecure to be a crown pince/princess today as they do Felipe i Letizia because the difficulties of their tasks and the anachronism of their situation. But as they have to having face at their duties working hard despite criticisms without forget they are human beings. So, they can have human faults. In the case of Letizia and Felipe, I'm very fascinating by their patriotic convictions and their true sens of the responsabilities. They know that their position is not God right and they have to work to win and keep the throne AND THEY DO all weeks long wihout failing. I don't think it's very funny to shake hundreds hands all days long even to be KING. The own caracteristics of each of them on their past seem, for me, an overstep debate. That it's very interesting it's how they can act as crown princes in a democratic and so various country. For that, the fact that Letizia was divorced after one year of mariage is totaly irrelevant.
  #171  
Old 04-28-2006, 07:16 AM
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I surprise some things that I read, Letizia was a free woman, and could do with her life what wanted. And what she did neither is a crime, nor is bad, nor damaged to anybody.

The comparison with Carlos and Camilla is absurd, because in them the negative thing was not so much the divorce how the been credit lovers it and to have cheated his couples. Besides, in England the Monarchy is the head of the religion, and in Spain the religion is something deprived without no links with the State.

And there is something in what there is many confusion. At least in Spain, the Princes are not prominent figures who do what they want, and less in this type of ceremonies that though private roads have much of politician and public; the King decides and when it is necessary consulting to other one authorities. It is necessary to have very much elegant, and the things do not depend only on the friendship or the familiar bows between Royal Houses.

The prince Carlos they have a good relation with the Spanish Royal Family, nevertheless, nobody went to his wedding with Diana. The reason was political and diplomatic, because they began their honeymoon in Gibraltar. Therefore, besides already of for if complicated that was turning out to be Carlos' wedding and Camilla, in the Spanish case it was turning out more problematic for other past questions.

The same thing happened with Alberto of Monaco. The familiar relations are good, and the King was present at Rainiero's funeral. But in this moment Alberto was not pleasing the Spanish for his intervention in the Olympian Committee, for treating in a slightly delicate and irresponsible way, a topic since it is that of the terrorism of which the Spanish are very conscious.

We are not speaking about normal families or groups of friends... we are speaking about representatives of states and in the decisions there are many things.
  #172  
Old 04-28-2006, 08:18 AM
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Actually this kind of thread is not very intersting because either you appreciate your " candidats" and may be you can lost the commun sens of the criticism or you don't like them and you put ahead non objective reasons that is normal but not very relevant when you have to give an opinion on peoples who have a public image but who can decides only few things about themselves ( for their public activities )

In my opinion you can dislike someone because he is shy, spontaneous, divorced, wearing a violin top or yellow tie. I confess that I'm very found of the Princes of Asturias for their fantastic public image that thy are begining to build AREN'T OBJECTIVE REASONS! It's an affective appreciation.
  #173  
Old 04-28-2006, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
In Mette-Marit's case, her father was an even worst enemy than any ex-boyfriend could've been!

I think that as any of the crown princes have not married very young (say in their early 20s), and are also marrying women close to their ages (in their early 30s), there is some expectation that the women (like the princes) have a past and have had relationships. I think it's only a matter of how much it matters to the people of the monarchy the princess represents. That Mary lived with someone for several years before meeting Frederik seems to be a non-issue in Denmark, but in Spain Letizia's previous marriage is quite an issue.

And that in this day and age when the media (tabloids) will pay for private pictures (eg. pictures of Sophie on a trip with her friends that were semi-nude or pictures of Mette-Marit partying) of the commoner princesses, nobody will be perfect and the dirt can be endless if the price is high enough, sadly.
Very good point, Alexandria. I think its an unavoidable situation with the Crown Princes marrying so late. As you say, they're naturally drawn to someone close to their age and the alternative of marrying someone young enough not to have had a past doesn't work.
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  #174  
Old 04-28-2006, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorninin
And more than that their refusal to attend Charles wedding. I know it was a controversial issue and most crownprincely couples did not go but after having Charles as a guest on their wedding and the fact that Felipe is not against the practice of remarriage among divorcees and not a very important engagement on that day, surely he could have shown up just like Haakon did. Them not showing up can be compared to one scenario, Charles and Camilla against adultery or Haakon against single mothers.
Capricorninin,

Felipe and Letizia didn't attend Charles and Camilla's wedding because they had already committed to other engagement before the date was announced. It was the handing of a title to one of Felipe's closest friends, Ricardo Lagos. It was not a try to diminish Camilla and Charles, it was just a conflict of agendas.

The event with Ricardo Lagos was later cancelled, but they couldn't just call England and say: "Hey, the event was cancelled, now we can go", that would have been incredibly rude.

As you can see in this link: Prince Felipe and Princess Letizia, Current Events Part 5: February - May 2005 the cancellation came on April 3rd, less than a week before Charles and Camilla's wedding.
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  #175  
Old 04-28-2006, 10:23 AM
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Well C&C's wedding was pretty controversial in England so I think if any more crown princes had shown up, it would have been more controversial. Somehow I don't think Charles and Camilla begrudged Felipe not coming.

These people are public figures so their attendance or non-attendance at an event is not necessarily due to their own wishes.
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  #176  
Old 04-28-2006, 10:40 AM
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My opinion about thos couple? I love them! They look godd together. They are so much in love. They work hard for monarchy... they are perfect couple!
  #177  
Old 04-28-2006, 10:48 AM
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Just out of interest, I know Haakon and Mette-Merit attended Charles and Camilla's wedding, but did any other international Royals attend? They were the only couple I can recall hearing about.
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  #178  
Old 04-28-2006, 10:51 PM
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I'm sorry to be the one to say this, but Letizia looks sick, she does not look healthy at all. Am I the only one worried about her?
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  #179  
Old 04-28-2006, 11:22 PM
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If by sick you mean thin, then yes, she is. I went back and looked at the most recent pictures, and I don't see anything but health and happiness. What do you see?
  #180  
Old 04-28-2006, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capricorninin
I think the issue here is not if Letizia was a divorcee or not. Mette, Maxima and Camilla all had scandalous pasts whether due to themselves, their parents or the history with their husbands. However one thing which stands out that each one of them had to acknowledge it. On their engagement Mette in a televised speech accepted her wild past, Maxima distanced herself from her father's career and choices. In Charles and Camilla's case, Charles publicly accepted his adultery and camilla did not get a church wedding. The fact that Felipe sprung on the Spanish people the news of their engagement straight on was as good as dumping her on them.
Huh? What past sins did Felipe or Letizia have to "acknowledge"? They didn't commit adultry. They didn't commit any crime that hurt the public or others. They didn't hide Letizia's divorce from the get-go. Letizia's past marriage and divorce was a private matter between her and her ex-husband. If she was completely at fault for the divorce, the only one she should appologize to is her ex-husband. And we don't even know whose fault it was. Sure, it's always convenient to blame the woman. What did she need to appologize to the public for? For not living up to their exulted expectations? Get real. I don't think anyone can even use religion as the justification since the Catholic church didn't consider her first marriage valid. So what else did she need to appologize for?

As for "dumping her" on the public, what other choices did Felipe have after the all the hard time the press and the public treated Eva? Plus, Letizia was a public figure herself due to her career. If it's known she's Felipe's girlfriend, it would damage her public image and career. In the cut-throat and very sexist field such as TV journalism, being a prince's girlfriend would make people take her far less seriously. They would speculate any promotion she got as "gift". In short, it would have destroyed her career if the relationship didn't work out. Felipe did all he could to keep it secret to protect her. That always struck me as a sign how much he loves her and how much more seriously he took her than his past girlfriends. Judging from all the way he looks into her eyes and how protectively and tenderly he treats her after they got married, I think my impression was correct.
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