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  #141  
Old 04-23-2006, 06:02 AM
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bad marriage? no religion and in favour of abortion? Can you say to me that this is truth? divorced women? That is something bad? The prince has not had other women also?
In addition who says to you that people would accept that Elena was the queen? The prince is prepared for it and for that reason it must be. In addition next to his wife, they make an excellent work for Spain.:)
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  #142  
Old 04-23-2006, 06:40 AM
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Letizia and favour of abortion? Have you read some German tabloids?
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  #143  
Old 04-23-2006, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRIS
bad marriage? no religion and in favour of abortion? can you say to me if this is truth? divorced women? this is something bad? the prince has not had other women also?

In addition who says to you that people would accept to Elena as she reigns? The prince is prepared for it and for that reason he is the one that must be it. In addition next to his wife, they make an excellent work for Spain.:)

To my it had not displeased me to have to Elena of Queen of Spain but good aqui still we are a little old and the throne is for the men:(
  #144  
Old 04-23-2006, 07:00 AM
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They are two different things. I am in favor of which a woman can be the queen, and support that in the future with Leonor. But the prince is the heir from small and he has prepared himself for it; for that reason I do not see well that want to put to Elena of queen.
  #145  
Old 04-23-2006, 07:27 AM
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The history is like it is , and every epoch has its circumstances.

I am sure that the Infanta Elena is been charmed with of not being the heiress. Though the fact of the priority of the male in Spain has a few historical certain reasons.

On other topics ... we are in the S.XXI.

The important of a Royal Family or of a Princess is that she serves well the citizens. Letizia was educated in a progressive enough environment and for that the role of the woman was very valued, and her way in the life has not been different from that of thousands of Spanish women of her generation. She was baptized and done the communion , then it was possible to remove of the religion, but she was catholic, practicing or not.

Besides, the religion is something of each one. Spain is a country without religious official confession. In the past when the catholic religion if it was official, the Queen Victoria Eugenia and the Queen Sofia changed religion ... there would be necessary to discuss that it is worse.

On the topic of the abortion I am confused, because so many rumors were invented that one comes to the confusion. Besides, this it is a private, own topic of the thought of each one, and until a woman is not in these circumstances I believe that she is not capable of knowing what she would do. Many circumstances exist in the life, and in this topic the women are always those who have something that to lose.

Letizia is not different from a great majority of women of her generation, who now have 30 0 40 years that in Spain it is the generation in whom the women started fighting to be they themselves and have a few rights, after a dictatorship of 40 years that had them living in the shade of the men.

And as the role of the women, the ideas in Spain they have changed, and today in day she is a plural society with ideas of all kinds. The Monarchies will remain in the S.XXI if they are useful to the citizens, and to be useful they have to understand and to know all the citizens. The Monarchy is a traditional institution, and as it to be the politicians use to place them close to a certain ideology. But the role of the Monarchy according to the Constitution is to exercise a moderating role between all.
Constitutional Monarchies are a bit paradoxical, but they have the advantage of contributing stability, of not being assigned to a political party and of the formation of the members to exercise a certain work.
The important thing is that they do well their work, and I believe that till now the Princess of Asturias is doing it to the perfection. She is making a very difficult role, remain in the shade to help her husband.
  #146  
Old 04-23-2006, 10:25 AM
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Thanks Lula for your good analysis very clever. I'm a little astonished when I read today words as Claudia wrote; I dream because I thaugh it was totaly anachronic, but we can see it's not.....
  #147  
Old 04-23-2006, 10:42 AM
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Felipe and Letizia never be King and Queen?

What will happen to them if it comes to the case that with Juan Carlosīdeath monarchy ends again in Spain? (Some rumours were spread these days about that fact)I can imagine that both Felipe and Letizia wouldnīt be too sad. Sometimes I think both canīt be bothered with that monarchy-staff.
  #148  
Old 04-23-2006, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanie
What will happen to them if it comes to the case that with Juan Carlosīdeath monarchy ends again in Spain? (Some rumours were spread these days about that fact)I can imagine that both Felipe and Letizia wouldnīt be too sad. Sometimes I think both canīt be bothered with that monarchy-staff.
heehee. Oh dear. A friendly warning for your good Stefanie...Prepare for an onslaught!
  #149  
Old 04-23-2006, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanie
What will happen to them if it comes to the case that with Juan Carlosīdeath monarchy ends again in Spain? (Some rumours were spread these days about that fact)I can imagine that both Felipe and Letizia wouldnīt be too sad. Sometimes I think both canīt be bothered with that monarchy-staff.
but as you can say this?
  #150  
Old 04-23-2006, 10:58 AM
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The Monarchy itself is an anachronistic institution by definition. People are entitled to prefer royals to choose noble rather than plebeian spouses, since the monarchy is an elitist institution itself. Many people claim that the fact royals are choosing their spouses among the people contributes to a better identification with those figures that represent a country; others say that this is the beginning of the end, since the distinguishing factor is now being solved, because the Princesses' blood is no longer blue, but red, as anyone else’s. Honestly, no one here knows how this will affect the institution; time will tell.

The point here is that we are able to objectively see these people's work, the way they play the role we require from them, without having to fabricate fake justifications for disliking them.

You may dislike Princess Letizia, because she doesn't play her role in a professional way, or because the plays it too much professionally or because she simply doesn't play it at all. But no one here can say she's a bad person just because she married a man before, as if she would be a better person if she just had lived with that man without legally assuming her relationship. No one can say she's a bad person just because she didn't go to the church every week. What makes one person better or worse, more or less honest is our conduct, our work, the way we treat the other people.

Being divorced doesn't make her the evil, just like being a noble virgin wouldn't make her Holy Mary.

It all depends on the reasons we state to like or dislike them.
  #151  
Old 04-23-2006, 10:59 AM
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I want to clarify something that equal creates confusion . I do not believe that Letizia is a woman behind a man, believe that she is a colitigant behind an inheritor. She does not occupy a secondary position for being a woman, but because she is not the heiress of right, the future Chief of State, but she is the colitigant. Possibly this it is one of the things most difficult of being able to go, learn to live in the second plane.

If you make the exercise of look in the forums at the acts of the Princes and those of the Princesses colitigants, calls the attention that the princesses always they are more followed than the princes. And it can be a danger, because in the end the future Chiefs of State are going to be the princes. In the Spanish case, the acts of the Princes always have major attention that those of the Prince only.

Though you criticize beech and so absurd things are said how that Letizia wants protagonism ... the certain thing is that she interests the people and that she drags many press. The Royal House has taken advantage of it in order which the work of the Prince is known more, but for it Letizia has placed in the second plane and has turned into a stranger.

Personally, I believe that in a beginning it was practical and logical. But I believe that two years later, the Royal House had to park the fear of that Letizia does shade to the Prince, and they must look for a way of combining the acts in solitarily with the united acts. She might begin with discreet things how hearings in the Zarzuela. What does not seem to be normal is that there are institutions, congresses, prizes ... that request the presidency of honor of the Princess, with the intention of which she comes, in order that later he is the Prince who presides at the acts.

On the other hand also I understand the fear. Letizia attracts expectation and with it good things and also you criticize. Often things as absurd as to criticize her because she wants protagonism, when always she places on the second plane and are counted the occasions in which we ear she to speak . Or things as absurd as to criticize that she has a secretary or an equipment with which to work how other princesses, thing that still does not have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanie
What will happen to them if it comes to the case that with Juan Carlosīdeath monarchy ends again in Spain? (Some rumours were spread these days about that fact)I can imagine that both Felipe and Letizia wouldnīt be too sad. Sometimes I think both canīt be bothered with that monarchy-staff.
Several things.

I believe that in the S.XXI the Monarchies will live always with the shade of the disappearance, and not only in Spain. The world evolves and the idea of democracy also. Spain is a complex country politically, in these days many advertising gives itself to the Republic for 75 Anniversary of the Republic II, but the Spain of then is not it of now, and that Republic finished with a Civil war. The communist, antimonarchic and republican parties took advantage of the moment to speak about the republic; but of there to other one there is a very long step. The decision only it can take the Spanish people of a democratic way and for the present time to the majority parties it seems that they are not interested. When the Kings were in France a republican exile said something very interesting ... he said that they had fought for the legality and the democracy, and that now this legality and this democracy was representing the parliamentary Monarchy.

The question is if the Monarchy is own of the democracies of the XXIst century.

Probably the Prince Felipe does not have the extrovert character of his father, and some of them have tried to present it as a rich child ... but in this sense his marriage has helped him and the journalists recognize it. On the other hand, in general nobody doubts his capacity and his education, and strange his attitude in an official act or his words in a speech on the occasion of critique. Letizia needs time, time in order that she develops a few own activities and time in order that the people know her indeed, and know that can be capable. The Queen Sofia had many things in against initially, but with her work and her attitude she has managed to be gained to the country.

If Spain ended up by restoring for third time the Republic, I believe that the Princes would be persons capacer of developing their life without problems. I believe that the Prince has been educated in the posibility, because both his parents and his grandparents have lived through the exile. Today in day the exile would not even exist because in the European Union already it does not exist, there be that search a democratic good solution for all.

More or less I see the panorama like that in Spain, though I believe that in other countries the situation is not much better. This week in the Spanish press have been published several articles about the Belgian Monarchy and the role of the Prince inheritor, and the situation does not seem to be much better.
  #152  
Old 04-23-2006, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Zenobia
heehee. Oh dear. A friendly warning for your good Stefanie...Prepare for an onslaught!
Not the struggle but a little explanation because it's obvious that the Prince first then that the Princes together are deeply involve in their role. I don't think that for Felipe and Letizia it's a circus show. I'm deeply convicence that the Princes of Asturias know the importance and the great risks of their situation. Since I took interest about this couple, I read a lot of things about Spain in history, political, social fields and I can observe that nobody is telling that the Princes are doing their tasks forcing themselves; even better Felipe hiself, since a long time, knowing the situation, said that he has to gain his King's title.

We can observe that the Prince worked with a very great caution and the main fault that it was reproach to be a nihtcluber seems ( for me ) totaly desepear since his wedding with somebody who know the people's realities and the world's work. Even this mariage is a corageous act because if you read some posts of this thread you can understand that it was and it is yet a fight to do accept Letizia as Princess of Asturias ( for relevant reasons, indeed )

So they are the reasons why it's not fair neither relevant to say that the princes will be not so sad if by impossible they wouldn't reign.

For the bothering ( ? ) I prefer the word bosedom, I think that everybody even the most attached at his tasks, can be sometime bother......
  #153  
Old 04-23-2006, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanie
What will happen to them if it comes to the case that with Juan Carlosīdeath monarchy ends again in Spain? (Some rumours were spread these days about that fact)I can imagine that both Felipe and Letizia wouldnīt be too sad. Sometimes I think both canīt be bothered with that monarchy-staff.
There are always going to be these kind of rumours in regards to every royal family, not just the Spanish one. In Denmark, the recent story is that Frederik and Mary will not be able to sustain Margrethe II's popularity and the monarchy will end with her. Or how many times in the last two decades have there been a call to the end of the British monarchy after QE II's reign since Charles and his scandals make him unfit to rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claudia
It is a pitty that Elena is not the heiress to the throne, she married a noble, the son of a Count and as I love traditions I really felt sorry that Felipe wasnīt forced to give his rights to his sister after making such a bad marriage with a divorced women, with no religion and in favour of abortion,
Who is to say that if Elena were the heir apparent there wouldn't be detractors too? Read any thread around here and you'll see that Jamie is not a very well liked or popular member of the royal family because of how miserable he looks or even for his sense of fashion. Or as mean as it is, who is to say that if Elena were the heir apparent, after Jamie's stroke there wouldn't be republicans calling for Elena to step aside for Cristina (who would then be next in line to the throne) because Elena would have an unhealthy partner to be a consort?

Just because Jamie comes from a noble background doesn't make him better than Letizia. His pedigree may be better, but that doesn't make him a better person. Nor would we know how hard working he would be. Would he be happy to stand next to Elena at two or three events a day day in and day out, would he smile always and not be grumpy or frown? Would he resent Elena for being the more powerful or important one in the relationship? Would he support her as Felipe supports Letizia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by claudia
knaw Letizia, seems to have change but I donīt think that this is something that you can change from one day to the other.
But she didn't change overnight. She has changed over the past two and a half years since she's been introduced as Felipe's fiancee. Why is it impossible or so hard to believe that Letizia could change or has changed?
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  #154  
Old 04-23-2006, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catango
ok, some people don't care about them, perhaps because they don't know them.
I wonder why if some people don't care anything about F&L or follow them that they would come to their thread to say so if they cared so little? And comments about Letizia's alleged "lack of tenderness," imo, seem misplaced. What I see in her is a strong and confident woman from a long line of strong and confident women. The way she looks at her husband and daughter and the way they look at her confirms her warmth and tenderness.
  #155  
Old 04-23-2006, 05:41 PM
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Laviolette, for me more than warmth and tenderness, Letizia looks very involve in her love match. I think that actualy Letizia is a passionate woman who has to control her to be quiet.
  #156  
Old 04-23-2006, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adelaide
Laviolette, for me more than warmth and tenderness, Letizia looks very involve in her love match. I think that actualy Letizia is a passionate woman who has to control her to be quiet.
True. I also see her as sometimes struggling to restrain her passionate side and the strong opinions we know she has. At times she just looks so intense and I'd love to know what she's thinking.
  #157  
Old 04-23-2006, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
True. I also see her as sometimes struggling to restrain her passionate side and the strong opinions we know she has. At times she just looks so intense and I'd love to know what she's thinking.
At least we know that Felipe values her opinion a lot, and I'd like to think that, at least backstage, she's making a difference.
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  #158  
Old 04-24-2006, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Anna_R
At least we know that Felipe values her opinion a lot, and I'd like to think that, at least backstage, she's making a difference.
It's looks like, you have just to read the article of the spain newspaper " Hoy" of today ( in Letizia's thread )to understand that the Princess and the real house) is making the good choice being in second rank behind her husband because for the april's saounding she the second behind the King himself.:)
  #159  
Old 04-26-2006, 11:28 PM
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I may be anachronic but for me monarquies are traditions, duties and representations of a country.
I am not against divorce, but I donīt want a queen of Spain to be divorced.
I think that royals should live for their countries, served their countries and represents their countries, by the other hand they have a life with privileges.
If they want to live as commoners and do what commoners do, then they must give up their titles and live a normal life, if they donīt want to follow traditions.
Take a look in what had become monarchies, scandals( Monaco.England,Luxemburg,Norway, Sweden, Holland), ilegitimate sons ( Belgium-Monaco-Holland-Luxemburg), actress that once made movies appearing nude ( Italy)......, remember the comments and conversations between Charles and Camila. I prefer the old monarchies, when being royal was another thing.
  #160  
Old 04-27-2006, 07:00 AM
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I believe that we cannot be living on the past. We are in century XXI and the things change, including the monarchy. I am happy with the princess; because she works much and very well and because thanks to her, the prince is happy.:)

I am sure that they will be excellent kings and our cute infant, an excellent princess of asturias.
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