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  #901  
Old 08-09-2007, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ricarda View Post
Letizia is reduced to being merely an assisting decoration "piece" and therefore she should be decorative at least, which she is less and less. And when that doesn't work what else is left: the loving wife and mother? Is Spain going to pay her for that alone?
If Letizia (and Felipe) had thought herself as a merely assisting decoration, she probably would have tried her best to decorate perfectly. The press had mentioned many times that Letizia wanted them to pay attention to her work, not her wardrobe. It's so funny that some of her detractors in Spain thought she was the one running the show. I guess from merely a decoration to the one running the show, the truth must lie somewhere in-between.
She had a very difficult pregnancy last year and was being held back a bit. According to the press, she will have more solo events starting this fall. On the other hand, the other crown princes don't have Felipe-like working schedule except for Charles. Nothing wrong if they continue working more as a team than the others.
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  #902  
Old 08-09-2007, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
The societies now have changing, and it is inevitable that the concept of the Monarchy also. The Monarchy already is not only a blue blood, is an institution in which the society of a country deposits a privileges and a responsibilities, and in the fulfillment of these responsibilities the value is. It is an ancient institution, but from which the modern societies demand a behavior.

I have never understood that Letizia's fact is a divorced person it is a motive of critique. And I believe that in general in the Spanish society it is important enough little, because we are in a country in which in a few years the number of divorces will overcome that of weddings.
Thank you lula.

It is true that society is changing and that monarchies have to adapt to it. Personally, I don't critizise Letizia for being a divorcee, so my comments are not aimed at her but more in general, as I live Britain, where there is a divorced CP who is married to a divorcee.

In the past, monarchy always had a cerain aura that uplifted the monarch or the heir to the throne from society. So the difficult task these days is to have a more "hands on" monarch, who is close to and accepted by the public, but on the other hand a monarch has to bring along certain characteristics that distinguish him from society. What I want to say is that the purpose of monarchy could be endangered when there is no noticeable difference between a normal member of society and a monarch.

So if monarchy is supposed to be somehow special the danger in Spain could be that people could ask the question why a monarchy is needed because the crown prince is more or less a popular and busy civil cervant, a position that can be found in any republican system, and the crown princess is more or less as any other spanish woman, with a middle class background, good education and divorced.

The British monarchy is much stronger than the Spanish one but I believe that with QE II being gone things will not become easier for Charles in terms of keeping up respect and acceptance, given his controversial background, and I believe that the same thing is even more likely to happen in Spain, with JC being gone one day.
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  #903  
Old 08-09-2007, 06:46 AM
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Felipe does not have a controversial background as far as I know and he did not have the chance his father did to successfully oversee the transition of Spain to a democratic constitutional monarchy and become widely popular and a symbol of unity for Spain.
  #904  
Old 08-09-2007, 07:18 AM
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Spain is an atypical country, it has been in its history in the last century, no European country has had so many changes in its system of government in a little time. Monarchy, Republic, Dictatorship, Monarchy, Republic, Dictatorship, parliamentary Monarchy... it has belonged a bit to mad people.

The Monarchy and the King Juan Carlos, represent the longest and stable period of democratic stability of the history of Spain. For its own history and for the logic of the times Spain is not a deeply monarchic country ... but if it is a country, which conscious of its own past and present history values the Monarchy as something positive.

We do not declare ourselves monarchic, but the Monarchy is the institution most valued over the Parliament, of the Government or of the Justice.

The King Juan Carlos was one of the protagonists of a fundamental change in the history of Spain, and difficultly the Prince is going to be able to develop the same role. The King, reigns but do not govern, his role is to represent to the State, and to be intermediary and balance between the different political, military and social elements.

The Monarchy must represent the balance of power ... something that in this country is more difficult, the politicians have their own war and the people every time trust less they. Always they are worst valued that the members of the Royal Family.

There is no doubt that the King and the Prince are and they will be the best ambassadors of Spain in the world. The mistakes of the diferents governments in exterior politics demonstrate it every year.

Finally, the Royal Family always has could be near to the people. Providing that some tragedy takes place, the population feels better represented in the Royal Family, because once again the politicians are in their war more worried in be blaming for the happened.

The Monarchy means the balance in the State, the stability, to represent with dignity to the country, and to have a power that can be near the people when has to be.

Of there that the King always has said to his son that the position must gain it day after day. The Prince will never take a historical opportunity as that of his father ... or probably if in another sense ... but what he must do is to realize his work of a responsible form.

The function of the Princess is to be to his side, and to do a responsible work, in which the people perceive that she represents well to her country. Because ultimately, when there passes little time more, the Princess already will not be an innovation, not such a lucrative personage for certain press. Because actually, she has tried to adapt to her new role, and she hasn´t done nothing bad. And the majority of the polemics that are created are absurd to create business. It is a hard period, but if she manages to overcome it with certain dignity, she will have won very much.
  #905  
Old 08-09-2007, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by susan alicia View Post
Felipe does not have a controversial background as far as I know and he did not have the chance his father did to successfully oversee the transition of Spain to a democratic constitutional monarchy and become widely popular and a symbol of unity for Spain.
I was talking about Prince Charles, who will be a divorced monarch being married to a divorcee.
  #906  
Old 08-09-2007, 08:39 AM
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I misunderstood, thought you meant both had a controversial background.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I was talking about Prince Charles, who will be a divorced monarch being married to a divorcee.
  #907  
Old 08-09-2007, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
She had a very difficult pregnancy last year and was being held back a bit. According to the press, she will have more solo events starting this fall. On the other hand, the other crown princes don't have Felipe-like working schedule except for Charles. Nothing wrong if they continue working more as a team than the others.
I'm looking forward to see her increased solo working schedule come to fruition. At the beginning, the excuse was that she was new and needed to learn the ropes from her husband, then her difficult pregnancies were blamed..what's next. She comes off to be more of a support to Felipe, they're not equal teammates. Even in areas where she is more knowledgeable and experienced it is him that is making the speeches..etc.
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  #908  
Old 08-09-2007, 02:06 PM
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I think the Casa Real has been very wise not putting Letizia to solo events at full speed at the beginning of her princess time. They have probably been afraid of the "Diana-syndrome" and wanted to stabilize their position as a strong pair and strong unit. I love to watch them together at official duties. They are such a special pair, they have a very rare and special connection between each other, that´s something not many pairs have. I´m sure Letizia will do solo events more often, but I hope they will still do many events together, that´s the best the Spanish Royal Family can present to the people.
  #909  
Old 08-09-2007, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I was talking about Prince Charles, who will be a divorced monarch being married to a divorcee.
I believe Prince Charles was a widower who got married with a divorcee.



About Felipe and Letizia: they both look nice, friendly and happy. In this summer vacations I saw Letizia relaxed as ever!
  #910  
Old 08-09-2007, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Regina View Post
I believe Prince Charles was a widower who got married with a divorcee.
!
prince Charles was divorced from Diana from so many years befor her death
  #911  
Old 08-09-2007, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ikram View Post
prince Charles was divorced from Diana from so many years befor her death
The divorce of the Prince and Princess of Wales was formally ended in August 28, 1996.
After her death, Prince Charles is viewed as widower in the eyes of the Anglican Church.
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  #912  
Old 08-09-2007, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
I'm looking forward to see her increased solo working schedule come to fruition. At the beginning, the excuse was that she was new and needed to learn the ropes from her husband, then her difficult pregnancies were blamed..what's next. She comes off to be more of a support to Felipe, they're not equal teammates. Even in areas where she is more knowledgeable and experienced it is him that is making the speeches..etc.
The Prince is and always he will be more important than she, if non it would be an important problem.

The Royal House take the initial decision of which the Princess was working together with the Prince, that way she might learn more and probably define her own role between all the things that she might do. Also they were managing to promote the image of the Princes of Asturias as Inheritors of the Wreath, and to remove the Princess of a frivolous image that to certain press likes to promote. The Princess was going to have many years ahead to do acts in solitarily, better to plan it well.

As soon as a time passed, was decided that she should start having acts in solitarily, and it was in September, 2006. The planning that they had changed in the moment in which she had inconveniences in the pregnancy, which there reduced to the minimum her public agenda, situation that complicated furthermore with the death of her sister.

So a bit of patience.

When September comes, the Princess will recapture a normal activity, which will include acts in solitarily. But it does not mean that now each one goes for a side. The acts with the Prince will be more than the acts in solitarily.

There are monarchies at which the persons work of very independent form, in Spain it is not like that, The Queen has acts in solitarily, but also she has many acts with the King.
  #913  
Old 08-09-2007, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
The Prince is and always he will be more important than she, if non it would be an important problem.

The Royal House take the initial decision of which the Princess was working together with the Prince, that way she might learn more and probably define her own role between all the things that she might do. Also they were managing to promote the image of the Princes of Asturias as Inheritors of the Wreath, and to remove the Princess of a frivolous image that to certain press likes to promote. The Princess was going to have many years ahead to do acts in solitarily, better to plan it well.

As soon as a time passed, was decided that she should start having acts in solitarily, and it was in September, 2006. The planning that they had changed in the moment in which she had inconveniences in the pregnancy, which there reduced to the minimum her public agenda, situation that complicated furthermore with the death of her sister.

So a bit of patience.

When September comes, the Princess will recapture a normal activity, which will include acts in solitarily. But it does not mean that now each one goes for a side. The acts with the Prince will be more than the acts in solitarily.

There are monarchies at which the persons work of very independent form, in Spain it is not like that, The Queen has acts in solitarily, but also she has many acts with the King.
Hi, Lula, quiet a little month whithout this forum, but always the same speeches!!!! I agree totaly with you particularly after to speak with spanish people who find that the cursus of the Princess since her wedding is the good one.
I have some difficulties to understand this so "energic" wishes to decide how Letizia has to work when everybody knows that it's a decion of the Royal House. It's totaly clear.
  #914  
Old 08-09-2007, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
So a bit of patience.
Its been more than 3 years, I would say a "bit of patience" has been shown
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  #915  
Old 08-09-2007, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
The Royal House take the initial decision of which the Princess was working together with the Prince ... The Princess was going to have many years ahead to do acts in solitarily, better to plan it well.

As soon as a time passed, was decided that she should start having acts in solitarily, and it was in September, 2006.
I am not always sure lula that the decisions Zarzuela makes are the result of an open minded discussion or realistic reflection, taking into account that it's the year 2007 AD and times are changing but more made from the perspective of what was good some decades ago still has to be good today.

I wish Felipe had more influence and could do more for Letizia to support her and sharpen her profile by providing more opportunities to prove herself, because he will be the Head of State of a modern Spain in the 21st century. I wonder if there is a frustration from his side about being unable to change the situation and, just in case JC will live as long as the Queen or even Queen Mother, if there will be the day when he will claim a more independent or stronger position, just as Charles did. Not sure if it's the right solution but it's human after all, who wants to be a King in Waiting for much longer than usual and still being told by Daddy or Mummy what to do in his mid fourties or fifties
  #916  
Old 08-09-2007, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Larzen View Post
Its been more than 3 years, I would say a "bit of patience" has been shown
Letizia was pregnant and gave birth twice in those 3 years.
Even though personally I think the system where the Consort is in th shadow of the spouse is prefferable, and I do think Letizia and Felipe make a wonderful team, I understand why people think more agenda for Princess Letizia wouldn't hurt.

I suppose in the months after the break we will see more separate engagements for Letizia.
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  #917  
Old 08-09-2007, 04:17 PM
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The issue is not so much separating the couple as it is giving precedence to her work or causes. Obviously more solo engagements would do this, but it would be a nice change to have Felipe accompany Letizia (more) and have her give the speech or preside over the event or whatever.
In my opinion, that is more indicative of a partnership/team that avid fans of the couple so proclaim.
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  #918  
Old 08-09-2007, 04:51 PM
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Duke, I believe that in this case it works equally. Because there is something that does not change, the Prince is the " principal personage ", and the Princess is the " secondary personage ", and it is as well as the people must conceive it, because he will be the future Chief of State. If the Princess has transmitted something in these two years, it is that she knows which is her place. Spain is in the habit of being a country, in that the figure of the " husband of " and the " wife of " is looked by magnifying glass. Proof of them is that Jaime and Iñaki, are two absolutely secondary figures.

The Queen is the wife of the Chief of the State, the First Lady ... and it is easy to agree ... but the Princess occupies a place that nobody had occupied in more than 100 years.

On the other hand, I believe that an excess of importance is given to the acts in solitarily. If you read any article or any news on the acts of the Princes, you verify that the Princess is a totally active personage, who informs and prepares the acts like the Prince. The Princes work together well because in addition they have similar interests ... there are many activities to which the Prince devotes himself and which have interest for the Princess. For her own interets, the Princess feels comfortable in these activities, which in solitary difficultly she might develop.

Ultimately all the Queens and Princesses colitigants devote themselves fundamentally to charitable activities. I believe that the Spanish Royal House had two problems, to choose between the multitude of requests that were done to the Princess, and to fit the Princess in a sector that was not "assigned" to the Queen or to 4 Infantas. They did not have hurry great, and they have looked for a sector, and I imagine that inside this sector they will have studied with that organizations it is possible to collaborate and with which not. From there, which she still has now, is to devote herself to these activities.

Duke, I believe that the problem of the Prince that waits exists in all the Monarchies.

Probably the key is in being delegating activities. The Prince forms a part of an Institution in which other one is the chief, and like in a company, the chief gives the orders, though always you can negotiate. The Prince of Asturias has an agenda increasingly complete. The Prince realizes now more trips out of Madrid that the King, which allows him to be in contact with the different Autonomous Communities. Every change of goverment in Iberia America, every inauguration of an Institute Cervantes in the world, puts him in touch with Chiefs of State.

The Royal House has a few procedure, and gives the procedure the one who gives the orders, and though to anybody they they do not please totally has to adapt to them. The Royal House they has its way of working, but what is undoubted, is that they are very conscious that the prince is the future, and the Prince wins in responsibility every year.
  #919  
Old 08-09-2007, 04:52 PM
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I think he should get a real job.
  #920  
Old 08-09-2007, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
The issue is not so much separating the couple as it is giving precedence to her work or causes. Obviously more solo engagements would do this, but it would be a nice change to have Felipe accompany Letizia (more) and have her give the speech or preside over the event or whatever.
In my opinion, that is more indicative of a partnership/team that avid fans of the couple so proclaim.
I believe that it is very slightly probable. He has accompanied her in two military acts, and because she still did not have own agenda, and these military acts are important for the Royal Family.

But in the normal activity, sense would not have. They are not in the same position. I do not imagine to the King Juan Carlos accompanying the Queen Sofia on her acts.

The role from someone who occupies a cargo and that of the colitigant they are different. One has responsibilities and duties that other one does not have.
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