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  #681  
Old 05-23-2007, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Little_star
Leonor has been seen plenty of times in unofficial acts, holidays being the most obvious example but also the birthday of one of Infanta Cristina's little boys, her trip to the park and the dozens of lovely photos of Sofia's presentation.
Yeah, lately we've seen Leonor a lot, but please, before the visit to the cinema with grandma, we hadn't seen Leonor, "live", for over 6 months, only the three birthday pics and the christmas cards, which are compeltely staged photo, and not a "live" appeareance.
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  #682  
Old 05-23-2007, 01:31 PM
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She's a baby at the end of the day. I really don't understand why some people "need" to see Leonor or any other Royal baby. It's always nice when new photos are released but that should be upto the parents, they shouldn't be pressured into it to please people.
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  #683  
Old 05-23-2007, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
She's a baby at the end of the day. I really don't understand why some people "need" to see Leonor or any other Royal baby. It's always nice when new photos are released but that should be upto the parents, they shouldn't be pressured into it to please people.
Yeah, you do have a point with that .
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  #684  
Old 05-23-2007, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissSaga
Yeah, lately we've seen Leonor a lot, but please, before the visit to the cinema with grandma, we hadn't seen Leonor, "live", for over 6 months, only the three birthday pics and the christmas cards, which are compeltely staged photo, and not a "live" appeareance.
We haven't but she's been out without being followed by paparrazi that's why we haven't seen a lot of candid photos of her. It's been written in the papers though of her sightings (if you follow this family), just too bad that there were no photos. I don't blame her parents if they want to protect her privacy for now. Felipe should very well know that Leonor and Sofia have the rest of their lives to be in the limelight and to be the subjects of the pink press, which will definitely start when Leonor begins school in a year or two. On the other hand, the Belgian couple rarely show their kids too. So far we've seen them skiing on vacation and they release "official birthday photos" set in a park. Other than that you don't see them out and about. I hope Casa Real would also have that thing that the Dutch Royal House has to protect their young royals from the press. I think that's a good idea.
  #685  
Old 05-23-2007, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
She's a baby at the end of the day. I really don't understand why some people "need" to see Leonor or any other Royal baby. It's always nice when new photos are released but that should be upto the parents, they shouldn't be pressured into it to please people.
Guess for many Royals it's part of their PR and kind of give and take, depending on their relationship with the press. There should be a balance though, especially with small children like Leonor. Showing up with her in the theme park could have been arranged becaused they missed the Easter mass where the family was expected to appear.

When Leonor was small it was ok to keep her away and it was easier. The older she gets, the more occasions come up where we can see her eg pre school and so on. So plenty of pics to come.
  #686  
Old 05-23-2007, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
How many "problems" do any Royals "solve" on their visits. Most simply attend, (especially the ladies) collect their flowers, sit, listen, perhaps contribute a small speech and maybe speak to the others attending.

I guess royals are only good for things like the ones you describe above. Then maybe royalty is obsolete at this point! Why pay tax money to people who are only going to collect flowers, sit and listen. Maybe you are not giving them the proper credit. I hope!
  #687  
Old 05-23-2007, 08:27 PM
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Yes..Roxteve, I think I agree with you... I'm one of these who believes that the way Royals are acting nowadays don't help in anything their nations, nor the ones they pay official visit to. People is paying taxes to these people lives on it, and I don't think this is fair at all.

I'm a Royalist, but I guess that Royalty must be more involved in serious thinks. They merely goes, cut a ruban, does a little speech about AIDS or Sports, then they wave a little , and then the returns to their homes to live luxuriously on their people's money ...And some of them even gets angry if these same people who paids their taxes to them to live this way, for they are "violating their private life"...Oh, go on!

Much before that Roxteve leave the message above, I warned some people who doesn't wants to speaks politics here, that this very discussion should pop out a day or another. And it poped out. I think that Monarchy is in danger of disparution if they keep living the way they are...

And Roxeteve...I do not think that Royals are obsolete for acting the way they are...it's quite the opposite: this is the role that modern civilization gave to Monarchies (who are no more owner of its destiny). Like children in Victorian era, Monarchies nowadays are espected to be "seen but not heard"

Vanesa.
  #688  
Old 05-24-2007, 03:23 AM
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I'm totally fascinating by people who aere going on to think that in the european countries where the royalty exist, it's only a cutten ribbon's firms which is expansive for the cityzen..
When you see the result of the sounding poll about the most important man/woman in Spain since about 500 years in which the winner is the King Juan Carlos, the fourth one is the Queen Sofia, the seventh one is the prince Felipe before all the politics, we have to think if finally the spagnards are only ribbon cutters people and have choose the best of them

Just a word for the cost about the monarquia, we know that in Spain the constitutionnal monarquia is about less 0, 30€ for year by Spagnard; how is the cost, for instance, of republican president who is going on from the elections to each four of five years? Nobody is able to say it because the answer is precisely it's an elected man! But for the cost for the country how much ??? If you have a idea, please tell us!
  #689  
Old 05-24-2007, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adelaide
I'm totally fascinating by people who aere going on o think that in the european countries where the royalty exist, it's only a cutten ribbon's firms which is expansive for the cityzen..
When you see the result of the sounding poll about the most important man/woman in Spain since about 500 years in which the winner is the King Juan Carlos, the fourth one is the Queen Sofia, the seventh one is the prince Felipe before all the politics, we have to think if finally the spagnards are only ribbon cutters people and have choose the best of them

Just a word for the cost about the monarquia, we know that in Spain the constitutionnal monarquia is about less 0, 30€ for year by Spagnard; how is the cost, for instance, of republican president who is going on from the elections to each four of five years? Nobody is able to say it because the answer is precisely it's an elected man! But for the cost for the country how much ??? If you have a idea, please tell us!
I am sure that monarchs who have been there for a long time and gone through a lot of problems with the country such as JC or, best example of all, QE II, cannot be valued high enough in terms of their work. IMO they do a lot behind the scenes, acting as arbitrators or giving advice. They might not have the power to actually take decisions but I am sure their advice is highly respected by the governments and appreciated by the public. Guess Gordon Brown will be intimidated when he'll meet the Queen first time as PM and she'll tell him that he's the 11th person she welcomes in this job : - ) So for me it's no surprise JC and Queen Sofia did so well in this survey. However, the younger generation does lack opportunities to prove themselves, best example is Prince Charles who has now been waiting for many years and might be waiting for many more years before he can actually prove himself. For that reason many of the younger couples end up with cutting ribbon jobs because their parents deal with the important issues. The CPs might listen and learn behind the scenes but for the public it comes across as they do mostly the smile-and-take-the- flowers job. Of course the Royal Houses are trying to find more interesting or important events, especially for the male heirs like Felipe or Charles, which makes it even more difficult for their wifes / consorts not to end up cutting ribbons all the time.
  #690  
Old 05-24-2007, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxsteve
I guess royals are only good for things like the ones you describe above. Then maybe royalty is obsolete at this point! Why pay tax money to people who are only going to collect flowers, sit and listen. Maybe you are not giving them the proper credit. I hope!
To a certain degree I think some European Royals do little else, that's not to say all are the same. For example there are many countries especially in the ME where the Royals are the absolute leaders.
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  #691  
Old 05-24-2007, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
To a certain degree I think some European Royals do little else, that's not to say all are the same. For example there are many countries especially in the ME where the Royals are the absolute leaders.
Thanks to write your thaughts which are totally obvious. To think that the constitutional monarchy or parlementary monarchy are only cutter ribbon's activities is failing totally to take account the Constitutional Law. In each european country in where you are a Royal Institution you have law's rules to determine the power of the Kings. It's the same at all according the different countries. The single thing that they have in commun is nowaday all the monarchic systems are constitional or parlementary.

Up to the pseudo tax paid to support their golden lived, it's very easy to demonstrate that a President of a Republic is at least so expansive ( in France, it's totally obvious ) and generally speaking in many countries where a President is elected, he/she very often emane from such or such financial lobby(ies) Today we know some very important countries which have a President who is the true emanation of a specific lobby. I think it's not necessary that I give a name!
  #692  
Old 06-06-2007, 12:29 PM
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I think today monarchy is achieving a great popularity and the royal families are becoming more and more atractive to the public eye. Many times we forgot that they live to serve their country! Monarchy can still exerce some influence on decisions, however my honest opinion is that their role, their mission (Filipe and Letizia's) main role is a pure symbolic role! Is like a fairy tale that everyone wants to live, their mission is to attend everyday assigments but and then?? What is the main purpose of that?Everything has is own purpose!Publicity?I think Royal familys nowadays must have a more active role in each country and then justify why they don't pay taxes, why they live on beautiful fairy tale Palaces and that they are not an antiquated system! Tradition is not how it used to be regarding Mocharchy. Now the king is not the supreme leader, so what is his role and what for their work?
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  #693  
Old 06-06-2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biboquinhas
Now the king is not the supreme leader, so what is his role and what for their work?
in summary:

First, representation (like the Portugal president) and they are the best ambassadors and public relations from Spain: promote businesses, the spanish culture, tourism, sport, etc...

If they weren't it would be necessary to pay to other people to make his work, the difference is that they do it better and cheaper.


(sorry for my Inglish)
  #694  
Old 06-06-2007, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biboquinhas
Tradition is not how it used to be regarding Mocharchy. Now the king is not the supreme leader, so what is his role and what for their work?
Here is an article on one of the many important roles the monarchy has been playing in Spain.
The Royal Family of Spain, Current Events Part 13: December 2006 - February 2007
  #695  
Old 06-06-2007, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biboquinhas
I think today monarchy is achieving a great popularity and the royal families are becoming more and more atractive to the public eye. Many times we forgot that they live to serve their country! Monarchy can still exerce some influence on decisions, however my honest opinion is that their role, their mission (Filipe and Letizia's) main role is a pure symbolic role! Is like a fairy tale that everyone wants to live, their mission is to attend everyday assigments but and then?? What is the main purpose of that?Everything has is own purpose!Publicity?I think Royal familys nowadays must have a more active role in each country and then justify why they don't pay taxes, why they live on beautiful fairy tale Palaces and that they are not an antiquated system! Tradition is not how it used to be regarding Mocharchy. Now the king is not the supreme leader, so what is his role and what for their work?
Don't you think you are contradicting yourself?
  #696  
Old 06-06-2007, 08:33 PM
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No, I don't think so. Biboquinhas is right, and I think there isn't any contradicting in her message. The fact is that there are different kinds of Monarchies even today, and that if we may criticize most of them we have very honorable examples to show the great popularity of this institution and of some of her representants. And Biboquinhas is also saying that Queens, Kings and Princes must do more than they do, to justify the place they have in society.She is not saying that she doesn't like Monarchs and Princes, just criticizing some of their defaults . If they should change some of their behaviours, and being more active, this one should be the Century where the Monarchy should have the love of the peoples of the world back.

In my personal case, I'm a Monarchist, but I think that Monarchs and Princes must let aside selfishness , expensive parties, and star-movie life to devoted to their countries in a very hard moment in the humanity history. They are the natural leaders of their peoples.

Vanesa.
  #697  
Old 06-06-2007, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanesa
No, I don't think so. Biboquinhas is right, and I think there isn't any contradicting in her message. The fact is that there are different kinds of Monarchies even today, and that if we may criticize most of them we have very honorable examples to show the great popularity of this institution and of some of her representants. And Biboquinhas is also saying that Queens, Kings and Princes must do more than they do, to justify the place they have in society.She is not saying that she doesn't like Monarchs and Princes, just criticizing some of their defaults . If they should change some of their behaviours, and being more active, this one should be the Century where the Monarchy should have the love of the peoples of the world back.

In my personal case, I'm a Monarchist, but I think that Monarchs and Princes must let aside selfishness , expensive parties, and star-movie life to devoted to their countries in a very hard moment in the humanity history. They are the natural leaders of their peoples.

Vanesa.
Could you please clarify which Monarchs and Princes you are referring to? Also, do you have specific areas of work in mind when you say that 'they' should be active and that 'they' should change some of their behavior? Thanks.
  #698  
Old 06-07-2007, 04:52 AM
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I think we simply cannot lump all monarchies together as they have different histories, some are more, some are less settled and they have a different level of acceptance in public. The ruling generation and their heirs have to respond to these circumstances.

Given Spain is a quite unstable monchary, Felipe and Letizia have to work harder or behave better or give more justification to be there than others have to do. Don't think they would get away with a lot of things that are ok in other monarchies, just a few examples: Can you imagine pictures of Felipe stumbeling drunken out of a nightclub as the young generation of the Windsors almost weekly does? No way in Spain but in Britain no one bothers, not even about much worse things where other family members were involved. Felipe getting married to a single mother with a shady past? No way in Spain but Norway is tolerant enough to accept MM and I think she's doing very well and she's very much liked by the public. Felipe getting married to a foreign woman whose father has a shady political past? Felipe divorcing and remarrying a divcorced woman? Felipe only doing a few events per month and sailing around the world instead? There are endless examples that show how difficult the climate is for the Spanish monarchy. Other countries are much more lucky in that sense - but of course it doesn't mean that their royals can do whatever they want or behave badly all the time and most of them don't. It's just that they have much more credit in the eyes of the public - no one questions the monarchy itself for these reasons because of its long history.

Too bad for F & L that they have to work so hard and cannot be sure that their efforts will be rewarded in the future.
  #699  
Old 06-07-2007, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
I think we simply cannot lump all monarchies together as they have different histories, some are more, some are less settled and they have a different level of acceptance in public. The ruling generation and their heirs have to respond to these circumstances.

Given Spain is a quite unstable monchary, Felipe and Letizia have to work harder or behave better or give more justification to be there than others have to do. Don't think they would get away with a lot of things that are ok in other monarchies, just a few examples: Can you imagine pictures of Felipe stumbeling drunken out of a nightclub as the young generation of the Windsors almost weekly does? No way in Spain but in Britain no one bothers, not even about much worse things where other family members were involved. Felipe getting married to a single mother with a shady past? No way in Spain but Norway is tolerant enough to accept MM and I think she's doing very well and she's very much liked by the public. Felipe getting married to a foreign woman whose father has a shady political past? Felipe divorcing and remarrying a divcorced woman? Felipe only doing a few events per month and sailing around the world instead? There are endless examples that show how difficult the climate is for the Spanish monarchy. Other countries are much more lucky in that sense - but of course it doesn't mean that their royals can do whatever they want or behave badly all the time and most of them don't. It's just that they have much more credit in the eyes of the public - no one questions the monarchy itself for these reasons because of its long history.

Too bad for F & L that they have to work so hard and cannot be sure that their efforts will be rewarded in the future.
Very good points, Duke of Marmelade!
I defintiely can't see the Prince of Asturias getting away with most of the things you mentioned. And I definitely can't picture him stumbling drunken from a club.
Though he did quite an unexpected thing, when he married a divorcee.
The Prince and Prince of Asturias are the most hardworking Crown Princely couple in Europe (by the number of duties and official acts they have), after the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall, so I think they understand the importance of their position.
They are not perfect of course, no one is, but I think they are doing their best, which is already quite a lot.
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  #700  
Old 06-07-2007, 08:31 AM
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Excellent posts Duke of Marmalade and Avalon.

Out of the current crop of CP's imo Felipe and Letizia face the biggest challenge and they are both working hard to defeat this.
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