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  #481  
Old 09-18-2006, 10:01 AM
Henri M.'s Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nagore
Letizia don´t ask pardon for nothing. It´s incredible that the prince don´t ask about his past life and is who is prince by birth. Letizia is a woman who had normal and private life,isn´t important her divorce or her boyfriends,the prince had many girlfriends too. Is important her work as a princess and it´s magnific, the other life is private for her and the other people who lives with her.
I agree. I don't see any problem with Doña Letizia. She simply does an excellent job, so far.
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  #482  
Old 09-18-2006, 10:46 AM
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I understand (and even agree with) all those who think that it's about time to give Princess Letizia a few solo acts, but I believe some of us are forgetting a little thing. The Spanish Royal Family, as it is organized by now, gives her little space, as an independent piece of the machine, just like Prince Felipe, himself, also has a gigantic difficulty to find his place, given the fact that his parents are plenty active and fully centralizing the machine.

There's a very interesting article published by Elmundo last year, which makes a very reasonable analisis of this whole issue. It explains that the Prince's cabinet has been struggling all these years so that Felipe can appear at least twice a week, covering a varied range of activities able to consolidate his respectful image among the power agents of the country (i.e., intelectuals and businessmen), and at the same time, to promote his popularity and proximity to the common citizen. And even if everyday the Royal House recieves dozens of invitations, there's still the danger of banalizing his image, any time such line of coherence is vanished from his agenda.
In this state of affairs, when not even the Heir seems to have a fully defined position, it's hard to find a place for the consort on her own.

Of course things would be a lot easier if the Spanish Monarchy hadn't such a fragile status... but it seems to me that it will be very difficult to have an independent Princess of Asturias. Letizia will hopefully be an active and independent Queen, as her mother in law is today, but I don't believe she will ever be an independent Princess of Asturias, just like her mother in law never was.
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  #483  
Old 09-18-2006, 11:24 AM
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In Spain there is an eternal discussion with this topic. The Prince does not have an own independent equipment, there has been debated very much the possibility of creating a House of the Prince, independent from the House of the King, but finally it has never been done. The Prince has a secretary Jaime Alfonsin and some attendees, but for the majority of the things he depends on The Zarzuela. He does not also have an economic own assignment, but he depends on what his father gives him.

For some it is good because there is kept an order, a hierarchy and a coherence. For others negative, because the Prince must go doing his place, his activities grow, and now already married and with a daughter, it becomes more necessary that he is acquiring certain independence.

All depends on the House of the King, and ultimately it can be a problem. They organize the acts of the Kings, the Princes and the Infantas.

The agenda of the Prince has been organized across the years, analyzing the acts to that he had to attend and the activities that he had to develop. The Prince has a series of activities assigned as his presence in the changes of government in Latin America, in the inaguration of the Institutes Cervantes and in managerial activities. Also he has activities of political, military type or of relation with the mass media.

It really complicates the situation for Letizia. The Queen and the Infantas have her activities organized for years. The Queen develops a very intense labor, and has many acts linked to her foundation and to organizations that take her name. Same the Infantas. Probably for the House of the King, it is easier than Letizia accompany her husband, while the rest of the Family continues with their activities of always. This way they have a problem less. They achieve that the activities of the Prince have more repercussion than that they have never had, and they save the work of organizing an agenda to the Princess.

Thinking about this topic, there is an act that will be prompt and on which I have certain intrigue. In November it is celebrated the day of the Red Cross, in which the Queen and the Infantas preside at tables petitorias. The first year Letizia came with the Queen, last year did not come because Leonor had just been born ... that will happen this year?
  #484  
Old 09-18-2006, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olga7777
Hi to everyone,

I have been trying to post something and I have had so many troubles that I almost forgot the reason of my posting.

It is true that Mette Marit had a shadier past than anyone of the princess, but she has proven that giving the opportunity she can make a wonderful job. And also it is true that Camilla and Carlos marriage was more complicate than the Princes of Asturias marriage, and even though, Camila has its own agenda. That makes very difficult to understand why Princess Letizia does not have her own agenda and her own acts.

Some people in Spain has talk about some kind of mistrust from the Royal Household towards Letizia, and it only fuels more speculation, as unlike Mette Marit, Letizia never gave any kind of explanations about her past life. That only gives more room for more speculation and makes people believe that it might be some reason that would make her not so up to the job when you compare her with other princesses.

It does not help the fact of the recent publication of a biography in Spain of a Spanish singer, in which he tells about a remark made supposedly by her in a dinner party, that was completely inappropriate.

I'm not sure whether will see her in the near future, having her own appearances without the presence of the Prince of Asturias

Hi again,

At the risk of again causing a stir I will post again, I want to remit to my post. There is speculation and that speculation only rises with rumours and comments, whether they are appropiate or not I'm not going to enter into, other people bring up regarding encounters with them.

The reason I mention the case of Mette Marit is simply because whether you want to consider it an explanation or some kind of requesto for forgiveness, she never in her past life did anything illegal, but her past life was sure going to be a source of rumours and speculation in the future, so in order to avoid all that it was better to do what she did and that way, put an end to all that. Because Letizia did have a "past" as some people said, it should have been perhaps a good idea to forecast that that situation was going to happen to her, and that a way to put a stop to that would be to do something similar to what Mette Marit did, and stop in its tracks any kind of speculation or rumours.
Unfortunately that has not been the case and it has let the door open, to whatever rumours and speculation, might arise.

I did not said anything about asking for forgiveness or pardon, only mention explanations.

The fact that she is the only Royal of a certain level without any kind of activities of her own, makes no favours to the situation describe above.

My apologies for any kind of misunderstanding cause with my posting. In any case, my posting is an opinion, just that.
  #485  
Old 09-18-2006, 12:56 PM
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Maybe Felipe needs to find a job and be independent that way. It must be hard to depend on your father for everything...even if you are a prince!!! It must be much harder for Letizia who was so independent before her wedding. Though call!!
  #486  
Old 09-18-2006, 02:04 PM
Henri M.'s Avatar
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Pro and con of an own House

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxsteve
Maybe Felipe needs to find a job and be independent that way. It must be hard to depend on your father for everything...even if you are a prince!!! It must be much harder for Letizia who was so independent before her wedding. Though call!!
An own House for the Heir has a pro: more visible profile. But it has also a con: it can give the impression of two rivalizing courts. Like Buckingham Palace versus Saint-James' Palace.

In the Netherlands they tried to find a middle between it: the Act Financial Statute Royal House 1972 gives an own independent income to: the King, the former King and the future King (and their spouses c.q. dowagers).

Máxima was created a Princess of the Netherlands in her own right, she receives her own independent income (appr. $ 1,068,860.-- in 2006), she has her own arms, her own personal standard, her own staff, all to mark that she is not only 'the spouse of' but has her own significant role to play.

For the rest the Prince and Princess of Orange use the infrastructure of the Queen's Household. Their staff is working for the Queen but are detached into the service of the Prince and Princess of Orange.

That Princess Máxima receives a state income is not that much disputed. It is acknowledged and accepted that the Government simply finds it 'undesirable' that the Heir and his spouse are in a paid relationship with individuals, institutions or companies.
  #487  
Old 09-18-2006, 02:31 PM
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Remember this is a thread, titled "What's your opinion about Felipe & Letizia?"

Please, do not compare the Princes of Asturias with any other Royal Couple, as well as similar/different circumstances, under which Letizia/Camilla/Mette-Marit/Maxima... became Crown Pricnesses.

Thank you for co-operation
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  #488  
Old 09-19-2006, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olga7777
.

The reason I mention the case of Mette Marit is simply because whether you want to consider it an explanation or some kind of requesto for forgiveness, she never in her past life did anything illegal, but her past life was sure going to be a source of rumours and speculation in the future, so in order to avoid all that it was better to do what she did and that way, put an end to all that. Because Letizia did have a "past" as some people said, it should have been perhaps a good idea to forecast that that situation was going to happen to her, and that a way to put a stop to that would be to do something similar to what Mette Marit did, and stop in its tracks any kind of speculation or rumours.
Unfortunately that has not been the case and it has let the door open, to whatever rumours and speculation, might arise.
The official website of the SRF already acknowledged Letizia's divorce. She has no business to tell everyone about her previous marriage or her ex boyfriends, that's her private matter. Felipe was never asked to tell his ex girlfriends.
On the other hand, in Spain, the rumors and specualtion on Letizia would never stop no matter what she does. Penafiel has been stalking her for almost 3 years now. She is his cash cow. The man needs something to write, to speculate each week. As far as he is there, the rumors or speculations will be endless. I don't think any other country has anyone even remotely similar to Jaime Penafiel.
  #489  
Old 09-20-2006, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsa M.
I understand (and even agree with) all those who think that it's about time to give Princess Letizia a few solo acts, but I believe some of us are forgetting a little thing. The Spanish Royal Family, as it is organized by now, gives her little space, as an independent piece of the machine, just like Prince Felipe, himself, also has a gigantic difficulty to find his place, given the fact that his parents are plenty active and fully centralizing the machine.

There's a very interesting article published by Elmundo last year, which makes a very reasonable analisis of this whole issue. It explains that the Prince's cabinet has been struggling all these years so that Felipe can appear at least twice a week, covering a varied range of activities able to consolidate his respectful image among the power agents of the country (i.e., intelectuals and businessmen), and at the same time, to promote his popularity and proximity to the common citizen. And even if everyday the Royal House recieves dozens of invitations, there's still the danger of banalizing his image, any time such line of coherence is vanished from his agenda.
In this state of affairs, when not even the Heir seems to have a fully defined position, it's hard to find a place for the consort on her own.

Of course things would be a lot easier if the Spanish Monarchy hadn't such a fragile status... but it seems to me that it will be very difficult to have an independent Princess of Asturias. Letizia will hopefully be an active and independent Queen, as her mother in law is today, but I don't believe she will ever be an independent Princess of Asturias, just like her mother in law never was.
Thank you for such an articulate post, Elsa_M. It's easy to criticise Letizia for not performing solo acts, although why it's such a big deal I don't know as she still attends more events and functions than those who do work alone!

I think it's about time people acknowledge the fact that Letizia cannot just do what she wants, as your post showed.
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  #490  
Old 09-21-2006, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
Thank you for such an articulate post, Elsa_M. It's easy to criticise Letizia for not performing solo acts, although why it's such a big deal I don't know as she still attends more events and functions than those who do work alone!

I think it's about time people acknowledge the fact that Letizia cannot just do what she wants, as your post showed.

I completely agree with you.. In fact if you compare her to other CPss who do solo engagements, you will be surprised that she did more than those who work alone.. Solo engagement is not a big deal when your CPss is doing a great job. She's not attending fashion shows but duties that require her role as future Queen. I think she's doing a great job now which does not entail her going solo.. Maybe as posted earlier, she'll do solo acts when she's queen just like the current Queen now..
  #491  
Old 09-24-2006, 04:32 PM
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The only reason I mention my post is that Felipe did not get married and then divorced and his first marriage was not a civil one and his second one was a religious one.

If they got married in a church is because I assume they will be believers in the rules of the church, I cannot understand that you do not believe in the rules of the church and suddenly in a matter of a couple of years you change your mind and you decide you want to get married in a church and you commit to the ceremonies involved in such a rite.

I do respect people who believe in God and follow the rules of the Church and other religions, but I find in certain cases very hard to understand certain changes of mind and opinion. You either believe or not, and you should follow a certain set of principles with some consistency otherwise it doesn't look very nice, and people look not only that.

Whether the Royal Household will assign her duties in a near future or they will be duties share with Felipe, at this stage I have to believe that yes it seems she is going to continue being the companion of Felipe and take very little duties on her own which actually contradicts the line taken in the case of the Infantas, that have duties and activities on her own.

As said before, any case it is not her own decision but the decisions made by the Royal Household and only them know why they are acting in that way.

In any case to end, Felipe was actually more discrete with his previous ex-girlfriends.

And please take this just as an opinion, nothing more than that.
  #492  
Old 09-24-2006, 05:09 PM
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Olga, nobody has right to judging the personal beliefs of the others. Many persons nowadays marry for the civil thing, or marry for the Church because the couple wishes it; it is a decision of two, and often some yield for others, because in the fund it is the love. Recently a friend of mine has married, he does not take any interest as the religion, but his wife is very devout, and he married for the church because she was wishing it. His friends we never think that he would do a wedding like that.

Letizia was educated in the catholic faith, she was baptized and did the first communion, so not that is so strange ... more when there are many Queens and Princesses who have changed of religion to marry, for example the Queen Sofia officially converted to the catholic faith, but in close friend and personnel nobody knows what preserves of her orthodox religion or of the interest for the oriental religions that existed in her family.

Spain though it is a traditionally catholic country, does not have any religion of State, for what if they want to be atheistic, Protestants, jewish or moslem ... they it can be.
  #493  
Old 09-24-2006, 09:06 PM
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Her ex-husband was previously married, so I guess that was the reason they didn't have a religious wedding.
  #494  
Old 09-24-2006, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Felipe was actually more discrete with his previous ex-girlfriends.
I beg to disagree on this one. In my opinion, there is no better illustration of discretion than the fact that the world did not know that the Prince was seriously dating someone until the Royal House announced the engagement.
  #495  
Old 09-24-2006, 11:09 PM
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Why is it so important for Letizia to do solo events? I think the main advantage of a Royal Family is that its a family working together and not a bunch of individuals going off and doing their own thing.

Letizia is not the only princess criticized for not doing solo events and the situation is puzzling. Camilla got her share of criticism for not doing solo duties and so she picked up a couple solo events. They were OK but not as nice as the events she did with Charles. It was nice to see the interaction and the love between the two.

What does Letizia gain by doing solo events? More credibility? She's already seen as a very intelligent and capable woman just from her previous career. Will she stop the people talking about her previous marriage? I don't think doing solo events will appease the people concerned about her previous marriage so its hard to see what Letizia and the SRF will actually gain by Letizia doing solo events.
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  #496  
Old 09-25-2006, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olga7777
I cannot understand that you do not believe in the rules of the church and suddenly in a matter of a couple of years you change your mind and you decide you want to get married in a church and you commit to the ceremonies involved in such a rite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olga7777
but I find in certain cases very hard to understand certain changes of mind and opinion. You either believe or not, and you should follow a certain set of principles with some consistency otherwise it doesn't look very nice, and people look not only that.

That you strange so much the change of faith and believings dismisses everthing is believed towards Saints, for example. Many Saints had a not-so-perfect life before answering the Call of Faith that changed their lifes.

Besides Saints the same call happens with regular people; some people stop going to church for some reason and one day they enter a church and when they notice they can't spend a Sunday without Communion and Eucharisty. That "miracle" can happen sooner or later... I'm cathequist and I've seen with great enthusiasm children bringing to Mass parents that have been away several years... so this things happen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by olga7777
contradicts the line taken in the case of the Infantas, that have duties and activities on her own.
In fact I don't believe it contradicts because the Infantas are Royal-Born and if we pay attention they have official duties and activities since they are 3 or 4 days old . They have been doing it all their lifes, Letizia came to this "world" two years ago so she can't be compared with the Infantas who have their activities and duties since long time before entered the Royal Family...


I do think that to give Letizia, with the Letiziamania (for good and for bad) we can see on Princes' public activities, would add extra-pressure on her that The Royal House can live without.

We've seen that the Princess didn't have an easy pregnancy with Leonor and we don't know how the next ones will be; if she has a difficult pregnancy several problems arise: who will replace her in her duties?! The Queen the Prince the Infantas?! Oh well Peñafiel would have glorious times In case she isn't replaced and she couldn't really go I can almost imagine the media titles "Letizia disapoints a group of children who have been preparing for her visit for months and she didn't attend!" (and adding a photo of a child crying to add more impact to Letizia disrespect) or in the eminency of these titles the Princess pushing herself too hard to attend everything she is requested... And don't think that because other Crown Princesses miss some compromises and nothing happens that it would be OK for Letizia - her scrutiny is somehow harder and meaner too ...


The present formula, which I like very much, is successful for Crown Princes and the Royal House, and removes extra-pressure since the Prince goes and Letizia can skip some compromises like she did while expecting Leonor...

And she will have plenty time to do solo acts, her own speaches and to have her own Patronages.

Regards,
mtbcm
  #497  
Old 09-25-2006, 09:24 AM
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Hi again,

Before continuing with my reply I would like to insist that this is just an opinion,

Quote mtbcm
"That you strange so much the change of faith and believings dismisses everything is believed towards Saints, for example. Many Saints had a not-so-perfect life before answering the Call of Faith that changed their lives."

In the first place I would like to say that even though I do not believe in any kind of organised religion, I do respect religious people of any faith and have them in great esteem, and also that I do believe in God.

I can believe in a Saint having a change of mind and changing his or her believes, unfortunately those changes in beliefs tend to be acknowledged after quite a significant period. People examine the actions of those people through time in order to really believe in that change of mind. That is the reason why I mentioned in a previous post the Mette-Marit example, she had a change of life and knowing the controversy this might looked she gave explanations ( she did not ask for forgiveness, as far as I know). That action helped everyone to give her the benefit of the doubt and considered that she might have had a change of mind, ( I know it sounds strange talking about saints and princesses at the same time). That was a way of stopping rumours on their tracks. It also helped significantly the fact that it was her and not the Royal Household who made it (correct please if I'm wrong in this issue, because I think it was her who made the statement) it gave that statement more strength.
I do know that people some times make things that are against their beliefs out of love, so I'm not surprise of anyone marrying in a church just to please a loved one. And also out of respect for that person. It's a very beautiful gesture.

Unfortunately, I'm realistic and I'm very aware of people that go to the church, and do appear to be very religious people in their public life and in the private life behave in a completely opposite way, in the belief that doing confession and pilgrimages will erase their sins and actions and all is forgiven and forgotten. Unfortunately I have to suffer them repeatedly, so I'm very wary of those sudden changes of mind mentioned before.

Again, please take this just as an opinion and nothing more
  #498  
Old 09-25-2006, 10:46 AM
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I appreciate much Dona Letizia, because even if she were never intended to be Princesse, she very largely deserved it.....
Moreover, this role suits him like a glove, she has the air intelligent, lives, she presents very well, is more than elegant.....
and is pretty in addition.....
On the other hand, it for what I appreciate it more, she is that it seems very posed, can remain in its place, it does not seek to become a star, to steal the high-speed motorboat or to imitate such or such princess or Queen....
She is the wife of the future king she always takes care has to remain in her place compared to her husband and her royal family.
I also appreciate the fact that she wears several same times clothing, because that illustrates the fact that it is somebody of good and sometimes that it does not throw blindness the money by the windows like other princesses of very poor countries very (like Morocco not to quote it)...... In short, it has very for it
  #499  
Old 09-28-2006, 04:51 PM
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In the beginning, I really liked Letizia, but as time went on, I didn't so much. I really had no opinion of Felipe. BUT, the other day, I came across a "forum" (I put forum in quotations because it's really nothing of a forum--no boundaries, no 'forum protocol,' and anyone can say whatever pleases with and especially without proof) that focused largly on Felipe and Letizia. In this forum, which I am sure many of you know what I'm talking about (cotilleando SP??). Anyway, from what I could understand, people were and continue to do this bashing...awful negative bashing. There was a post someone made about Letizia having 3 doubles so she could go and do whatever she wanted...and how 'no wonder she looks so different everyday...' I was and am shocked. People were saying how Leonor is very ill with some type of bad illness and how Letizia was a bad person because___ (they filled in many, many, many different points). That left a really bad taste in my mouth. And I think, that I felt sorry for Letizia because she DID afterall totally transform her life. She has to put up with a huge load of crap from people in Spain and abroad, especially the 'press' in Spain. I feel sorry for her because of how she is treated...like she's a bad person. AND, she's not a bad person. I now think she is great. I now have a totally different opinion and view of her. I did not like her 'at first,' but I do now. One thing is that the reason that I like her is not because she's noble, royalty, pretty, does numerous kind acts in public or whatever other reason she is praised for. I like her because I've seen her show this kind of determination and strength for not letting people get her down. I think to myself, 'No wonder she looks tired and ill,' I'd be too if I had half of the stress she deals with everyday of her new life. I like her because I can appreciate how she's handled all the negative things in her life with such maturity and just plain humility. I think that that right there should make people like princesses, not their designer clothes, not the shoes, not the public acts, but the things that you can't buy or show up to...that being the character that you 'use' to distinguish your own life and how to deal with "bad" people with a humble heart....Again, I have no opinion of Felipe ...He's OK, he's alright.

And that's all I have to say about that.
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  #500  
Old 09-28-2006, 05:41 PM
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I feel sorry for Letizia, I think many people don't understand her, yesterday I went to the market, and I listened to some women talking about her, they criticized her in a way a didn't like, they even said that she would be worse than the last princess Diana.
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