The Banned Cover of 'El Jueves' Magazine and Related Issues: July 2007

[chuchu]

If the cartoon would of being about Jesus and Ma. Magdalena or the same God for that matter, about the Pope, about the politicians we elected, as we have seing in the past (the same El Jueves have done a huge amount of satirical cartoons about all those public figures), nothing would of being happened, nothing, niente, finito, zero, nada, and that's sad and that's why people are so mad about the whole situation, we have seing all kind of cartoons, sexual ones too and nothing has happened in the past, that's the kind of society in where we live, where two persons are "more equal" than the rest, of course you can have Aznar and Zapatero, people that we elected, on sexual explicit cartoons and no Judge will dare to send the police to the stands to kidnap the magazine ever or even maybe close the webpage but oh, "is just Zapatero, is just Aznar, is just God", this is a complete shame and non-sense, as we say is Spain "O todos moros o todos cristianos".

When it comes to the Monarchy, in this case Felipe and Letizia, some "smart" people have decided to make a circus out of it that has had the opposite of what they expected because now not only the spaniards who used to buy the magazine knows about the cartoon but the whole Spain knows about it, but wait, not only Spain but the rest of the world, those people are the best marketing the magazine could ever have. The same standard most be applied to every person and not only to the royals in a country where everything is critizised because last time I checked Franco wasn't there anymore and we had a democracy but whith "selective freedom of speech" and "non touchable people" we are in a big problem as a country and as a democracy and maybe the people will start questioning, as I'm, certain laws and inmunities, certain chapters of the Constitution that only some selected people can enjoy and even more, questioning the Monarchy, if a Judge don't get crazy when he sees a sexual cartoon about Aznar and wife or Zapatero and wife, or Jesus or God in sexual postures then is a great deal of hypocrisy to go nuts for two and only two people, for more princes they could be, because rights comes with duties and being public figures comes not only with a high life style but with burdens too, period. If somebody in the RH felt unconfortable the right way is to place a demand in a court and wait for a Judge to rule not for a Judge to send the policeman to kidnap the publication and probably close the webpage. Unfortunately that's the hypocrite society in where we live in, in where some sexual cartoons are funny as hell and the same Judge will laugh high and clear just because the Princes are not the protagonists but God a Prime Minister or any celebrity for that matter, in those cases "is funny" and "legal" but o course some people are "more equals" than others.

I think the crux of this matter is that there is a law in Spain that prohibits anyone from criticizing the Royal Family. The law has to be upheld and taken seriously. If the law is outdated or no longer pertinent, then it shouldbe repealed using the proper procedures.

 

[Mari_*]

the Kings still have sex

.. I laughed so much DoM!


Jokes aside, IMO everything has limits and boundaries and this magazine defenitely crossed the line!

 

[lula]

I think the crux of this matter is that there is a law in Spain that prohibits anyone from criticizing the Royal Family. The law has to be upheld and taken seriously. If the law is outdated or no longer pertinent, then it shouldbe repealed using the proper procedures.

Turned to the same mistake. The law not prohibe to criticize neither to the King nor to the Wreath ... what the law establishes is the limit to where this critique can come, and this limit is that of the rest of fundamental rights. The King is criticized every week, and this law has applied 3 or 4 times in 10 years.

 

[Kelly]

I just saw the magazine cover, and I thought it was absolutely disrespectful and disgusting. It lacks any sense of morality and value. I have heard the spanish media can really trash you if they want to but this would be considered too much.

 

[Roxsteve]

I'm so glad I don't live in Spain. I would like to be free to say what I want to say and not have to go to jail because I don't like the King. This is the year 2007--there are more important things to worry about than Letizia and Felipe having sex. While I'm sure it was very disrespectful and tasteless, I think they should get over it and focus on things that are worthy. I think one of the journalists made a good point saying that it is time that Felipe gets a real job. Yes, I have said that all along. Going to funerals, weddings, baptisms, etc is not a job and I don't think it represents the country. He should work like any president/ambassador/etc. does. Everyday, five days a week...this is the year 2007.

 

[Kelly]

I'm so glad I don't live in Spain. I would like to be free to say what I want to say and not have to go to jail because I don't like the King. This is the year 2007--there are more important things to worry about than Letizia and Felipe having sex. While I'm sure it was very disrespectful and tasteless, I think they should get over it and focus on things that are worthy. I think one of the journalists made a good point saying that it is time that Felipe gets a real job. Yes, I have said that all along. Going to funerals, weddings, baptisms, etc is not a job and I don't think it represents the country. He should work like any president/ambassador/etc. does. Everyday, five days a week...this is the year 2007.

As you have a right to your opinion. I think that it is okay to express what we feel, however that freedom ends when we invade someone else's space. And that is why here in the USA you can also sue someone for damaging your name or as we say defamation. Personally I think that Felipe has done a great job in advocating and bringing attention to things that the government doesn't even care to touch internationally and nationally.

 

[highpriestess]

I think one of the journalists made a good point saying that it is time that Felipe gets a real job. Yes, I have said that all along. Going to funerals, weddings, baptisms, etc is not a job and I don't think it represents the country. He should work like any president/ambassador/etc. does. Everyday, five days a week...this is the year 2007.

Perhaps you're mistakening Felipe for some other crown princes? Felipe has one of the busiest schedule among all crown princes. Check his calendar.

In another thread, some posters complained that he and his wife seldom go to other royal gatherings such as baptisms, birthday parties etc. Here someone is saying all Felipe does is going to funerals, weddings and baptisms. Someone isn't paying attention.

 

[Redferns]

So true. Felipe is doing an extraordinary job if you compare him to Willem Alexander or Frederik. Willem alexander has no calendar apart from impregnating his wife and Frederik does and terrific job sailing

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f11/prince-felipes-current-events-part-9-a-13210.html
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...-alexander-current-events-part-2-a-12518.html

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

So true. Felipe is doing an extraordinary job if you compare him to Willem Alexander or Frederik. Willem alexander has no calendar apart from impregnating his wife and Frederik does and terrific job sailing

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f11/prince-felipes-current-events-part-9-a-13210.html
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...-alexander-current-events-part-2-a-12518.html

Well, keeping in mind the situation of the spanish monarchy, being in constant danger of being abolished, we don't know what kind of Crown Prince Felipe would be if he was in WA's or Fred's position. He has no choice but to work and please the public, that's not his decision. He has to earn his position every day, according to Daddy's motto, but I am pretty sure there are days he'd go sailing if only he could instead of inaugurating the twentysixth exhibiton that month.

Felipe is not a more worthy CP than others. He simply acts according to the circumstances of his country, as WA, Fred and all the others do. Bad luck for him that sailing means vacation and is not part of the working schedule

 

[donnaK]

So true. Felipe is doing an extraordinary job if you compare him to Willem Alexander or Frederik. Willem alexander has no calendar apart from impregnating his wife and Frederik does and terrific job sailing

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f11/prince-felipes-current-events-part-9-a-13210.html
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...-alexander-current-events-part-2-a-12518.html

WA does work for UN on water management now, although not much for the Dutch tax payers who pay for his salary. On Fred's terrific job on sailing ? Well, check for the standing of his boat in the races. If sailing is indeed his job, he might get laid off soon .

 

[lula]

Duke, to work nobody likes, and to all it would like to be always of vacations ... but we do it because we have to do it. The Prince Felipe is not different, works because a place has to be gained. The opposite, to see it to live through the life doing at all or doing little, it would be the worrying thing. Another thing later, it is that every State has different ways of seeing, since it is necessary to to be the work of these princes.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Duke, to work nobody likes, and to all it would like to be always of vacations ... but we do it because we have to do it. The Prince Felipe is not different, works because a place has to be gained. The opposite, to see it to live through the life doing at all or doing little, it would be the worrying thing. Another thing later, it is that every State has different ways of seeing, since it is necessary to to be the work of these princes.

While Felipe is mostly judged on his work - and even ridiculed or critizised despite a heavy workload, see El Jueves - why shouldn't others be able to schedule their workloads or life as CPs differently if they are not scrutinized that much in their countries because the monarchy has a different standing there? Different countries, different points of view and at the end of the day it's down to the respective public to decide if what they do is valuable enough for survival or not. So if the Danes love Fred for sailing and think it is a valuable asset for Denmark no need for him to work his butt of. The danish public would probably think something's wrong with Fred if he adapted to Felipe's workload Bad for poor Felipe - or not if he's a workaholic person - but it doesn't make him a better or more suitable CP. No CP has something like an "easy" job - it's just that they are judged from different perspectives.

Regarding one issue they are all treated equally - they have to produce heirs, and so far all have done a terrific job!

 

[Redferns]

Duke, what kind of king will be a man who has never worked as a crownprince? I desagree with you, I know you don't like Felipe and his wife but I think Felipe is more charismatic, hardworker and whortier than those men.

Monarchy will survive if their royals work for their country. IMO, the nederlands and denmark are the worst examples of a modern monarchy.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Duke, what kind of king will be a man who has never worked as a crownprince? I desagree with you, I know you don't like Felipe and his wife but I think Felipe is more charismatic, hardworker and whortier than those men.

Monarchy will survive if their royals work for their country. IMO, the nederlands and denmark are the worst examples of a modern monarchy.

Well, I strongly disagree.

First of all, I don't dislike Felipe and Letizia, if there is someting I dislike it's Letizia's role / the way she is being presented.

How can you say that one CP is better than the other without considering the background or the history of the monarchies they were born into and the bond they have with the people of their country. This is the basis of their existence, after all.

What is good for one monarchy might not be good for another and therefore there is no point in comparing but seeing WA and Maxima as the worst example of modern monarchy is a pretty weird thing to say. Felipe and Letizia could consider themselves lucky if they had so much positive feedback and admiration in their own country as WA and Maxima and I haven't seen the Danes ridicule or question their CPs the way Spain did with their CP couple these days.

I don't see how only the workload of his schedule should be decisive if a Crown Prince is valuable for his country or not and I better do not mention the schedule of a Crown Princess because Letizia doesn't look too good in comparison to her peers, does she? But again, that's Spain and if the spanish way of doing things is widely defended on this forum, why critizise the way other countries handle their issues - differently, but far from being less successful in terms of serving their countries?

 

[lula]

I am not going to other forums to criticize what other princes make or allow doing ... neither matters for me ... since I have said every country it is required different things ... from my point of view, there are things that in Spain would turn out to be incomprehensible.

Duke, there is a thing in which I do not agree by no means with you. The Princess Letizia cannot do many acts in solitarily, but she does many acts with her husband, and it is so a work like them to do in solitarily ... she cannot do the speeches .. she isn´t the protagonist, but she is there, takes part of the preparation of the act and is there, conversing and interacting with the people. She can occupy an a bit secondary place, but it is a work of two, the only difference is that she does not do the speeches.

You do not understand Letizia's work and say it, in the same way as many people can comment that they do not understand the work of other princes.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

You do not understand Letizia's work and say it, in the same way as many people can comment that they do not understand the work of other princes.

Fair enough and that's what this forum is all about, isn't it I will probably never understand Letizia's role but it's a pleasure to comment on it

What I don't like is the attitude Felipe being the most hardworking guy around doing the highest and most serious amount of work together with his devoted wife while all others are sailing all the time and attending royal gatherings = fooling around on taxpayer's expenses.

Even if it's true, fine, but it doesn't make him a better CP than others, who are equally or sometimes even more respected in their countries as future monarchs (including their wives as consorts)

 

[lula]

Duke, I believe that you must reread the forum.

Someone has said that the Prince Felipe only devotes himself to go weddings, baptisms and parties, and that it is not a work. And other are answered that it is not precisely the Prince Felipe the one that more devotes himself for it.

The Princes of Asturias work, and, in this moment they have their priorities, the work and their daughters.

Whenever the Princes of Asturias do not go to an act of the European Royalty, they are critized in theses forums... because there are people for that these acts are the most important. Of the same form, there are people who can value other things, and for them critize other princes.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Duke, I believe that you must reread the forum.

Someone has said that the Prince Felipe only devotes himself to go weddings, baptisms and parties

I belong to those who consider what he does work, therefore he has enormous work schedule, but I don't think that this makes him more valuable as CP than others, who might have a lighter schedule or concentrate on other things. What counts is the acceptance in the respective country and here Felipe does not do better than any of his peers.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

The Princess Letizia cannot do many acts in solitarily, but she does many acts with her husband, and it is so a work like them to do in solitarily ... she cannot do the speeches .. she isn´t the protagonist, but she is there, takes part of the preparation of the act and is there, conversing and interacting with the people. She can occupy an a bit secondary place, but it is a work of two, the only difference is that she does not do the speeches.

BTW, she has already done speeches and if this is her role, why would Zarzuela make the effort to annouce a "solo agenda"? Could it be that they had a look around and saw what's possible in other countries Let's wait and see what's left of the solo activities when Letizia comes back in autumn.

 

[lula]

If something is evident it is that every country has different levels of exigency with their Royal Families and different needs. Every country is different. But for my there is something does not have discussion, the Royal Family occupies a place of privilege to the service of their citizens, and receives a money to make a work… and for that reason they have the obligation to make their best work the possible thing.

 

[Larzen]

Duke, to work nobody likes, and to all it would like to be always of vacations ... but we do it because we have to do it.

Mmm must be a rare spieces if I lived in Spain becaus eI love my job, and I know noone who would like vacation all year around

If something is evident it is that every country has different levels of exigency with their Royal Families and different needs. Every country is different. But for my there is something does not have discussion, the Royal Family occupies a place of privilege to the service of their citizens, and receives a money to make a work… and for that reason they have the obligation to make their best work the possible thing.

The state pays thousand and thousands of people to be public servants and do their work everyday, if the royals present them selves as nothing more than another pair of civil servants the regular sivil servants might start to wonder if they are not a tad bit over payed For me the royals must try to offer a bit more, otherwise we migth as well have president. They represent the history, tradition and continuation, and if they stuff all this away and just focus on the number of events then they are for me just like another civil servant and there is nothing extraordinary about a hard working public servant. For me doing the best possible work does not having their picture taken the most possible times in one year but try and higlight important topics in the country (and possible abroad) and represent at state events home and abroad (like Presidents do). (and pleeeeease this does not mean I condone of doing nothing and having 25 weeks of vacation)

 

[lula]

BTW, she has already done speeches and if this is her role, why would Zarzuela make the effort to annouce a "solo agenda"? Could it be that they had a look around and saw what's possible in other countries Let's wait and see what's left of the solo activities when Letizia comes back in autumn.

Do not be wrong. Do not mistake, to the Royal House with the press, this it is a great mistake. It was the press the one that got obsessed when the Princess began to make acts alone, the Royal House announced it with the same normality that announces the agenda every week.

The Royal House decided from the first moment, to follow their own strategy and their own way of doing the things. Why have they to be equal to other Royal Houses? From a beginning, they decided that the Princess would begin her work accompanying the Prince, and that of form progressive would be increasing her activities and responsibilities. Probably, from Zarzuela there was thought, that the most useful thing was to use the obsession of the press for the Princess, to direct the attention to the couple as symbol of the future of the Monarchy, and not to turn her into the star (it had been very easy).

The Princess was new, much had that to learn, and they thought that the best way of doing it, was to do it together with her husband ... she had to know authorities, had to know problems, learn with whom she must speak and with whom not, that has to or she must not say or do, or she had to learn to move publicly surrounded with bodyguard. And they decided that this learning was evolutionary, stepwise. And inside this progressive plan, it was foreseen that from a certain moment, she was starting having acts in solitarily.

The Queen Sofia has acts solitary, but also she realizes many activities with the King. The Kings were directly Kings, departed from zero, because their previous position was not very clear. And nonetheless, they dedicated the first years to crossing together Spain.

The Infantas married, and their husbands do not have any official activity, only they come to some as accompanists of their wives, but they do not do anything in solitarily.

In Spain, they have had to create the Princess of Asturias role from zero, and have done it thinking in like it could be better and more useful to the Wreath and to the State.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

thanks lula

The Royal House decided from the first moment, to follow their own strategy and their own way of doing the things. Why have they to be equal to other Royal Houses? From a beginning, they decided that the Princess would begin her work accompanying the Prince, and that of form progressive would be increasing her activities and responsibilities. Probably, from Zarzuela there was thought, that the most useful thing was to use the obsession of the press for the Princess, to direct the attention to the couple as symbol of the future of the Monarchy, and not to turn her into the star (it had been very easy).

Not a bad idea - they obviously did not want a second Diana issue although despite this plan there is much more attention when L is around than F on his own.

The Princess was new, much had that to learn, and they thought that the best way of doing it, was to do it together with her husband ... she had to know authorities, had to know problems, learn with whom she must speak and with whom not, that has to or she must not say or do, or she had to learn to move publicly surrounded with bodyguard. And they decided that this learning was evolutionary, stepwise. And inside this progressive plan, it was foreseen that from a certain moment, she was starting having acts in solitarily.

Her first true solo act was in October 2006, 2 1/2 years after marriage, no mircale the press started speculating why it took that long.

The Infantas married, and their husbands do not have any official activity, only they come to some as accompanists of their wives, but they do not do anything in solitarily.

True but you simply cannot compare the role of the husbands of the Infantas with role of the Princess of Asturias, the future Queen of Spain.

In Spain, they have had to create the Princess of Asturias role from zero, and have done it thinking in like it could be better and more useful to the Wreath and to the State.

Sometimes I think they started to think about Letizia's role 36 years ago, when Felipe was born, and haven't updated their thoughts since.

 

[Roxsteve]

This is a no-win situation. There are those who are going to defend the CP till death and there are others who are not (like me). I don't think it is bad to give an opinion one way or another. You are not going to change my mind. I just have a different opinion. It's not bad or good, it is just that an opinion. I don't want to argue with anyone, but just as you have a right to say what you like about them, I also have a right to express my opinion. I think they have an easy life and I don't think of Felipe's "agenda" as work. I just don't. Sorry!

 

[lula]

thanks lula
Not a bad idea - they obviously did not want a second Diana issue although despite this plan there is much more attention when L is around than F on his own.
Her first true solo act was in October 2006, 2 1/2 years after marriage, no mircale the press started speculating why it took that long.

True but you simply cannot compare the role of the husbands of the Infantas with role of the Princess of Asturias, the future Queen of Spain.

Sometimes I think they started to think about Letizia's role 36 years ago, when Felipe was born, and haven't updated their thoughts since.

Evidently, it is not the same role in of the Dukes that that of the Princess, but if it is true, that many wives of princes not inheritors develop an activity institutional, sometimes, even more intense than their husbands.

The Royal House could have an idea of like they were going to do the things, but until moment does not come, it is impossible that they could have defined something clear, because the circumstances change. They change the circumstances into the Royal Household, because the current Chief of the Royal House goes a few years, and change in the society. What if it is true is that the own King always has tried that they all are acquiring (in case of the Prince or the Princess) or they are losing activity little by little.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

SOME ARTICLES ABOUT THE TOPIC

Cartoonists guilty
MADRID The authors of a cartoon that showed Crown Prince Felipe of Spain and his wife, Princess Letizia, in a sexual pose have been found guilty of insulting the Royal Family. The High Court ruled that the maximum penalty should be a fine, rather than a prison sentence. All copies of the magazine El Jueves were seized after the cartoon was printed on its cover last week. (AFP)

EUX.TV - Basque senator blasts Spanish royal family

AHN | Spain's Prince Felipe And Princess Letzia Receive Apology For Offensive Cartoon | July 27, 2007

Cartoonists describe the Prince and Princess as the most representative couple in Spain

 

[Henri M.]

Nothing new under the sun in Spain

Today in the Netherlands newspaper Algemeen Dagblad is reported the Amsterdam Public Prosecutor will start a lawsuit against a man who yelled to two policemen: "I hate your Queen! The Queen of the Netherlands is a w###e!" (Followed by a detailed description of sexual acts he would do with the Queen). The article makes not clear if the man was a foreigner. His wordings look like he was visiting the Netherlands and insulting its Queen.

The Public Prosecutor will base his lawsuit on article 111 of the Penal Code: "Intentional caluculated insult of The King will be punished with a custody of at maximum 5 years and/or a monetary fine of the fourth category (= appr. € 500,-- / $ 675,--)".

This to put the heathened Spanish discussion into perspective: also in the oh-so 'liberal' Netherlands where (according to many) there are no limits, insult of The King is prosecutable. The thought behind this is that The King is inviolable and stands on a high and revered position which should be protected by law.

 

[Kelly]

This to put the heathened Spanish discussion into perspective: also in the oh-so 'liberal' Netherlands where (according to many) there are no limits, insult of The King is prosecutable. The thought behind this is that The King is inviolable and stands on a high and revered position which should be protected by law.

I am not quite understanding your point here Henri, do you mean that the a member of the royal family should not be insulted and if he/she is, then they should be persecuted? If indeed that is the case, they should do that for everyone alike just because we should respect each other as human beings.

 

[Henri M.]

I am not quite understanding your point here Henri, do you mean that the a member of the royal family should not be insulted and if he/she is, then they should be persecuted? If indeed that is the case, they should do that for everyone alike just because we should respect each other as human beings.

The same policy as in Spain (insulting the King or his House) also applies in the Netherlands. Two years ago a father and his son even were arrested in the heat of the night because they have deeply insulted the Prince of Orange and Princess Máxima on a forum like this.... (Not that the action was initiated by the princely couple. It was the Mayor of The Hague who ordered the police to take action). The two did spend two nights in jail and were fined for a few hundreds of Euros and ordered to be banned by the internet provider. Just for insulting royals on a forum like this.

And now this action by the Amsterdam police to a foreigner who yelled insulting remarks about the Queen. It is even so that not only the Queen but also intentedly insulting a 'befriended head of state' is prosecutable (also for this there are example of prosecution and fines , like for insulting the Emperor of Japan or the President of the United States). Famous were the many actions in the 1960's who yelled 'Johnson Murderer!' in the streets of Dutch cities (during the Vietnam War). The authorities were not amused to use an understatement. A man (protesting against the Zorreguieta connection with the Junta) who threw a little plastic bag with flour to a carriage in which the Prince of Orange and Princess Máxima were seated, also was thrown into jail and fined for 250 Euro and 40 hours or something community service.

I only wanted to make clear that Spain is not unique in this. Or undemocratic. Or backward. Many more countries, no matter monarchy or republic, have the same sort of laws concerning the protection of the head of state.

 

[Kelly]

Gotcha! Interesting I guess it is the same in the US when we do something against the nation. Although we have the freedom of expression so the president can get trashed anytime without reprimation. Very sad though.

By the way here is the new cover of El Jueves rectifying their stand:

http://www.royalblog.nl/