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  #141  
Old 07-25-2007, 02:01 AM
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No, what I'd try to say is that if the RH, as the harmed ones, feel the need to go to court let be it, as in other Monarchies or even as you and me as a juridic person, because they have rights as juridic persons as well outside the royal paraphernalia, that's understandable but what nobody understand, for many good reasons, is that a Judge ordered to kidnap the magazine from the kiosks and even try to close the page, it sounds like a one-way-justice where the other part doesn't count, is like fighting with a leon and with their arms tied. A lot of people will understand better if the implicated person or institution take an action or lawsuit as plaintiff and a court decide what is to be done, a fine, a month without publication against the magazine or even nolle pro in favor of El Jueves, whatever the outcome may be I assure you that's more democratic and more century XXI.
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  #142  
Old 07-25-2007, 05:18 AM
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If it is certain that for a long time a judge has not been retiring a magazine, but not long ago if images of television or articles have retired. And they have been by denunciations of private people.

The Spanish press separates with difficulty the public and the private thing when it is related to the Royal Family, I do not have any doubt who if instead of the Public prosecutor, the denunciation puts a member of the Royal Family as private person… the result would be the same, or worse. It is not necessary to forget, that a newspaper that assumes serious, created a great controversy and said that they attacked its freedom of expression, when from the Royal House, sent a letter to the director to denying a information.

They do it with the Royal Family and they do it with private personages… is very difficult that the press assumes that has been mistaken, on the contrary, before they create the great controversy and they are taken hold to the “freedom of expression”.
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  #143  
Old 07-25-2007, 05:46 AM
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Apart from the law, the King is too much respected to be ridiculed in such an indecent manner, so they do it with the Princes and get away with it. Where will this kind of behaviour lead to? F & L will have a serious problem in the future if they don't find a way of preventing this kind of behaviour towards them, a total lack of respect by parts of the media. It might not be the "serious" press but nevertheless the yellow press etc do have an impact of the opinion making of the public and no country wants a laughing stock as future King
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  #144  
Old 07-25-2007, 06:06 AM
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The certain thing is that if they have a serious problem. But I do not believe that question combines only of respect.

With the King they do not dare, because he is the Chief of the State, there are critiques but these always are more parties. With the Prince they dare a bit more, but you do not create either that great. With whom they do not put limits it is with Letizia, because at this moment it is the great business.

And the certain thing is that the press respects neither anything nor to anybody, ahead the business is. The attitude of the press, in general, respect to everything it has changed very much in the last years. But the Royal House continues doing the things like them it was doing before .... and it is clear that it already does not work ... also there is clear that most benefited is the King, who continues being protected from this history. The King is the one who gives the orders, and whom more protects the press, while it continues being like that the things are not going to change. The attitude of the Royal House before the rumors and the lies on the Princess, has been excessively benevolent. And what for my is more worrying ... at this moment the Royal Household has two babies who are " the golden mine " of the press, and those that the press so as to do negotiates does not seem to be very ready to respect. Or the King takes some type of measure, or is going to be partly a person in charge of destroying the infancy of his granddaughters.
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  #145  
Old 07-25-2007, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Apart from the law, the King is too much respected to be ridiculed in such an indecent manner, so they do it with the Princes and get away with it.

No one, royal or not, should be ridiculed the way El Jueves did.

I wouldn't like to see my most hated neighbour pictured like that, so it is normal that (some) people who thinks the same, thought in saying "That is Enough!"

And I'm sure that many who laugh around with seeing Letizia and Felipe pictured like that wouldn't like to see their favorite royals in the same "position" (I know doesn't sound good, attending ) but the fact is that it is as simple as that - no one in his perfect mind likes to see - charicatures or not - people being ridiculed that way).

And there are other member of Spanish Royal Family that would profit much more in that position doesn't look THAT funny now, does it?!

Regards,
mtbcm


P.S. - And I agree with lula, or the good sense and parcimony prevails in the media or the King will have to take measures...
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  #146  
Old 07-25-2007, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Apart from the law, the King is too much respected
are you sure?

SLANDERING THE KING GETS MAN A YEAR IN JAIL

Basque convicted for king insult

A Basque radical has been sentenced to a year in prison for saying the King of Spain was "in charge of torturers".


Arnaldo Otegi, spokesman for the banned Basque nationalist party Batasuna, was charged with slandering King Juan Carlos during a 2003 news conference.
The Supreme Court's decision overturns a ruling by the Basque Superior Tribunal, which cleared Otegi in March on grounds of freedom of expression.
Batasuna was banned for allegedly being part of the Basque militant group Eta.
Appeal
The slander charges related to a visit to the Basque region by the King of Spain in 2003.
Otegi told a news conference that the King was "chief of the Spanish army, that's to say, the person responsible for the torturers, who favour torture and impose his monarchic regime on our people through torture and violence".
Otegi later said that he had not intended to slander the king, and his criticism was directed at those who commit torture and not him personally, El Mundo newspaper reports. Otegi faces an appeal at the Supreme Court later this month against a 15-month conviction for defending terrorism. He has previously spent four years in jail for kidnapping.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Basque convicted for king insult
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  #147  
Old 07-25-2007, 08:50 AM
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Spanish soldiers convicted for king insult
Defensa confirma que cinco militares grabaron un vídeo en Ceuta con insultos al Rey y quemando su retrato - 20minutos.es
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  #148  
Old 07-25-2007, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Redferns View Post
are you sure?

SLANDERING THE KING GETS MAN A YEAR IN JAIL

Basque convicted for king insult

A Basque radical has been sentenced to a year in prison for saying the King of Spain was "in charge of torturers".


Arnaldo Otegi, spokesman for the banned Basque nationalist party Batasuna, was charged with slandering King Juan Carlos during a 2003 news conference.
The Supreme Court's decision overturns a ruling by the Basque Superior Tribunal, which cleared Otegi in March on grounds of freedom of expression.
Batasuna was banned for allegedly being part of the Basque militant group Eta.
Appeal
The slander charges related to a visit to the Basque region by the King of Spain in 2003.
Otegi told a news conference that the King was "chief of the Spanish army, that's to say, the person responsible for the torturers, who favour torture and impose his monarchic regime on our people through torture and violence".
Otegi later said that he had not intended to slander the king, and his criticism was directed at those who commit torture and not him personally, El Mundo newspaper reports. Otegi faces an appeal at the Supreme Court later this month against a 15-month conviction for defending terrorism. He has previously spent four years in jail for kidnapping.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Basque convicted for king insult
Yes, I am sure that if the cartoon had been about JC and Sofia, the spanish public would have reacted differently. There would be a ban, of course, due to the law, but I think it would be much more supported by the public than it is now. I think people would distance themselves more and think it's tasteless than they do now due to the respect they have for the King. Besides, he's the Head of State, and not Felipe, therefore IMO he deserves a special protection, that's the case in any country, monarchy or republic.

As stated earlier, it has become fashionable or a business to bash the Princes, something that would never be done with the Kings, because they seem to have less protection and are an easy target, due to their place or standing in the current state of the monarchy.

Of course there will always be radicals, enemies of the state or the crown, who will express their views in an offensive manner. But I think that's different, more ideological and has to be prosecuted because it's against the monarchy / Head of State itself. IMO there is no similarity to this case, a personal offence hidden behind satire, because a radical (in this case even a criminal) doesn't have the purpose to discredit or ridicule a person in order to make money.
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  #149  
Old 07-25-2007, 09:18 AM
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Duke I believe that the sketcher never would have arrived so far with the Kings, and if he had done it it had happened the same. Or perhaps there was more unnoticed past because the Kings do not interest so much.

The press looks for the easy objective, and the objective that is to them profitable… and nowadays that objective is the Princess. The King is 70 years old, which does not have counted in 30 years,is not very interesting to count it now, nor to people interests it in excess. It is easier, to have like objective to the newness, the person who is new, that has still not been able to present… that in addition is the one that interests more. The Prince suffers “collateral damages” but they do not attack to him so directly. The princess has become a personage who serves for everything… only name her in articles that havelittle or null relation with her, so that people reads the article.

The subject of Otegui is a different case, is a political subject. Whenever Otegui opens the mouth a judge is kind in case he commits a crime.
How it is when the independentists republicans open the mouth. The attack to the Monarchy and the King, is a way to justify themselves politically and to gain votes.

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  #150  
Old 07-25-2007, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
Duke I believe that the sketcher never would have arrived so far with the Kings, and if he had done it it had happened the same. Or perhaps there was more unnoticed past because the Kings do not interest so much.

The King is 70 years old, which does not have counted in 30 years,is not very interesting to count it now, nor to people interests it in excess.
lula, because of the law the same had happended, I agree. Maybe people had seen it more as satire in the first place and not as a personal insult because they can't imagine the Kings still have sex so the issue had developed much less controversial.
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  #151  
Old 07-25-2007, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RaniaRocks View Post
If the cartoon would of being about Jesus and Ma. Magdalena or the same God for that matter, about the Pope, about the politicians we elected, as we have seing in the past (the same El Jueves have done a huge amount of satirical cartoons about all those public figures), nothing would of being happened, nothing, niente, finito, zero, nada, and that's sad and that's why people are so mad about the whole situation, we have seing all kind of cartoons, sexual ones too and nothing has happened in the past, that's the kind of society in where we live, where two persons are "more equal" than the rest, of course you can have Aznar and Zapatero, people that we elected, on sexual explicit cartoons and no Judge will dare to send the police to the stands to kidnap the magazine ever or even maybe close the webpage but oh, "is just Zapatero, is just Aznar, is just God", this is a complete shame and non-sense, as we say is Spain "O todos moros o todos cristianos".

When it comes to the Monarchy, in this case Felipe and Letizia, some "smart" people have decided to make a circus out of it that has had the opposite of what they expected because now not only the spaniards who used to buy the magazine knows about the cartoon but the whole Spain knows about it, but wait, not only Spain but the rest of the world, those people are the best marketing the magazine could ever have. The same standard most be applied to every person and not only to the royals in a country where everything is critizised because last time I checked Franco wasn't there anymore and we had a democracy but whith "selective freedom of speech" and "non touchable people" we are in a big problem as a country and as a democracy and maybe the people will start questioning, as I'm, certain laws and inmunities, certain chapters of the Constitution that only some selected people can enjoy and even more, questioning the Monarchy, if a Judge don't get crazy when he sees a sexual cartoon about Aznar and wife or Zapatero and wife, or Jesus or God in sexual postures then is a great deal of hypocrisy to go nuts for two and only two people, for more princes they could be, because rights comes with duties and being public figures comes not only with a high life style but with burdens too, period. If somebody in the RH felt unconfortable the right way is to place a demand in a court and wait for a Judge to rule not for a Judge to send the policeman to kidnap the publication and probably close the webpage. Unfortunately that's the hypocrite society in where we live in, in where some sexual cartoons are funny as hell and the same Judge will laugh high and clear just because the Princes are not the protagonists but God a Prime Minister or any celebrity for that matter, in those cases "is funny" and "legal" but o course some people are "more equals" than others.
I think the crux of this matter is that there is a law in Spain that prohibits anyone from criticizing the Royal Family. The law has to be upheld and taken seriously. If the law is outdated or no longer pertinent, then it shouldbe repealed using the proper procedures.
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  #152  
Old 07-26-2007, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
the Kings still have sex
.. I laughed so much DoM!


Jokes aside, IMO everything has limits and boundaries and this magazine defenitely crossed the line!
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  #153  
Old 07-26-2007, 05:20 AM
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I think the crux of this matter is that there is a law in Spain that prohibits anyone from criticizing the Royal Family. The law has to be upheld and taken seriously. If the law is outdated or no longer pertinent, then it shouldbe repealed using the proper procedures.
Turned to the same mistake. The law not prohibe to criticize neither to the King nor to the Wreath ... what the law establishes is the limit to where this critique can come, and this limit is that of the rest of fundamental rights. The King is criticized every week, and this law has applied 3 or 4 times in 10 years.
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  #154  
Old 07-26-2007, 10:45 AM
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I just saw the magazine cover, and I thought it was absolutely disrespectful and disgusting. It lacks any sense of morality and value. I have heard the spanish media can really trash you if they want to but this would be considered too much.
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  #155  
Old 07-26-2007, 10:04 PM
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I'm so glad I don't live in Spain. I would like to be free to say what I want to say and not have to go to jail because I don't like the King. This is the year 2007--there are more important things to worry about than Letizia and Felipe having sex. While I'm sure it was very disrespectful and tasteless, I think they should get over it and focus on things that are worthy. I think one of the journalists made a good point saying that it is time that Felipe gets a real job. Yes, I have said that all along. Going to funerals, weddings, baptisms, etc is not a job and I don't think it represents the country. He should work like any president/ambassador/etc. does. Everyday, five days a week...this is the year 2007.
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  #156  
Old 07-26-2007, 11:28 PM
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I'm so glad I don't live in Spain. I would like to be free to say what I want to say and not have to go to jail because I don't like the King. This is the year 2007--there are more important things to worry about than Letizia and Felipe having sex. While I'm sure it was very disrespectful and tasteless, I think they should get over it and focus on things that are worthy. I think one of the journalists made a good point saying that it is time that Felipe gets a real job. Yes, I have said that all along. Going to funerals, weddings, baptisms, etc is not a job and I don't think it represents the country. He should work like any president/ambassador/etc. does. Everyday, five days a week...this is the year 2007.
As you have a right to your opinion. I think that it is okay to express what we feel, however that freedom ends when we invade someone else's space. And that is why here in the USA you can also sue someone for damaging your name or as we say defamation. Personally I think that Felipe has done a great job in advocating and bringing attention to things that the government doesn't even care to touch internationally and nationally.
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  #157  
Old 07-27-2007, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Roxsteve View Post
I think one of the journalists made a good point saying that it is time that Felipe gets a real job. Yes, I have said that all along. Going to funerals, weddings, baptisms, etc is not a job and I don't think it represents the country. He should work like any president/ambassador/etc. does. Everyday, five days a week...this is the year 2007.
Perhaps you're mistakening Felipe for some other crown princes? Felipe has one of the busiest schedule among all crown princes. Check his calendar.

In another thread, some posters complained that he and his wife seldom go to other royal gatherings such as baptisms, birthday parties etc. Here someone is saying all Felipe does is going to funerals, weddings and baptisms. Someone isn't paying attention.
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  #158  
Old 07-27-2007, 01:51 AM
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So true. Felipe is doing an extraordinary job if you compare him to Willem Alexander or Frederik. Willem alexander has no calendar apart from impregnating his wife and Frederik does and terrific job sailing

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...9-a-13210.html
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...2-a-12518.html
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  #159  
Old 07-27-2007, 03:05 AM
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So true. Felipe is doing an extraordinary job if you compare him to Willem Alexander or Frederik. Willem alexander has no calendar apart from impregnating his wife and Frederik does and terrific job sailing

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...9-a-13210.html
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...2-a-12518.html
Well, keeping in mind the situation of the spanish monarchy, being in constant danger of being abolished, we don't know what kind of Crown Prince Felipe would be if he was in WA's or Fred's position. He has no choice but to work and please the public, that's not his decision. He has to earn his position every day, according to Daddy's motto, but I am pretty sure there are days he'd go sailing if only he could instead of inaugurating the twentysixth exhibiton that month.

Felipe is not a more worthy CP than others. He simply acts according to the circumstances of his country, as WA, Fred and all the others do. Bad luck for him that sailing means vacation and is not part of the working schedule
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  #160  
Old 07-27-2007, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Redferns View Post
So true. Felipe is doing an extraordinary job if you compare him to Willem Alexander or Frederik. Willem alexander has no calendar apart from impregnating his wife and Frederik does and terrific job sailing

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...9-a-13210.html
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...2-a-12518.html
WA does work for UN on water management now, although not much for the Dutch tax payers who pay for his salary. On Fred's terrific job on sailing ? Well, check for the standing of his boat in the races. If sailing is indeed his job, he might get laid off soon .
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