The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > Royal Family of Spain > King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia and Family

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #101  
Old 07-21-2007, 01:47 PM
fanprincipesasturi's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: desde mi ventana veo gibraltar español,reino de espaÑa, Spain
Posts: 1,055


Freedom is speech is really important for everyone but I think that it is just as important to protect the freedom and right of people to dignity and from slander, harrassment and lies.[/quote]

ok ok ok i agree with you!!!!!

Libertad Digital: La Casa Real dice que no tenía conocimiento de la denuncia de Pumpido
__________________

__________________

La Lengua acompañó al Imperio (Antonio de Nebrija)
The Language
accompanied to the Empire (Antonio de Nebrija)

Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 07-21-2007, 02:01 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: -, Spain
Posts: 1,010
Thanks for the article. So it is saying that Casa Real did not request the judicial hearing...

I'm sort of about it. I somehow can't see The Princes themselves getting 'worked up' over the cartoon/writing because at the end of the day it is just a cartoon. Surely they would expect things like this to happen someday?

This makes me think that perhaps The Royal family didn't order the ban to happen, but since it is the law, it happened anyway.

I don't know..
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 07-21-2007, 02:12 PM
fanprincipesasturi's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: desde mi ventana veo gibraltar español,reino de espaÑa, Spain
Posts: 1,055
I believe that simply it is a maneuver but of the spectacular "aparato of propaganda" of the PSOETA to reactivate a publication in crisis,
forgotten by the public, Catalan, and "progre," with position to the taxes of the Spaniards. We do not forget that the "aparato of propaganda" of the PSOETA it is specialized in reviving deads, it see the example of ETA, or the civil war, and now, Thursday (el jueves) , that a that as of this moment it will have without a doubt very many but thrown that the one that having, and that without a doubt will finish like humoristic associate to the EpC.(" educación para la ciudadanía")
Yo creo que simplemente es una maniobra mas del espectacular "aparato de propaganda" de la PSOETA para reactivar una publicación en crisis, olvidada por el público, catalana, y progre, con cargo a los impuestos de los españoles. No olvidemos que el "aparato de propaganda" de la PSOETA está especializado en resucitar muertos, vease el ejemplo de ETA, o la guerra civil, y ahora, El Jueves, que a partir de este momento tendrá sin duda muchísimo mas tirada que la que venia teniendo, y que sin duda terminará como adjunto humorístico a la EpC. (educación para la ciudadanía)
__________________

La Lengua acompañó al Imperio (Antonio de Nebrija)
The Language
accompanied to the Empire (Antonio de Nebrija)

Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 07-21-2007, 02:18 PM
fanprincipesasturi's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: desde mi ventana veo gibraltar español,reino de espaÑa, Spain
Posts: 1,055
Quote:
Originally Posted by ...sOfIa.... View Post
Thanks for the article. So it is saying that Casa Real did not request the judicial hearing...

I'm sort of about it. I somehow can't see The Princes themselves getting 'worked up' over the cartoon/writing because at the end of the day it is just a cartoon. Surely they would expect things like this to happen someday?

This makes me think that perhaps The Royal family didn't order the ban to happen, but since it is the law, it happened anyway.

I don't know..
the law is the law
__________________

La Lengua acompañó al Imperio (Antonio de Nebrija)
The Language
accompanied to the Empire (Antonio de Nebrija)

Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 07-21-2007, 02:31 PM
carlota's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: , United States
Posts: 5,689
Quote:
Freedom is speech is really important for everyone but I think that it is just as important to protect the freedom and right of people to dignity and from slander, harrassment and lies
a drawing is just simply that: a drawing. if someone took a photo of the princes in an embarrasing or indignant moment, that's a violation of their dignity. a picture really isn't, for it is nothing real.

besides, no one does put in jail someone because someone did not respect their dignity. there are millions of famous celebrities around the world whose private pictures were shown all around. let me just remind you of kate moss's incident some years ago, just to mention one of them. she wasn't only publicaly humiliated by the photo, but by the many people critisising her and she even lost contacts with important firms because of that. nobody took the paper out of market. she didn't even receive money for the incident, but actually lost it because of losing her job. what makes make moss and the king of spain different in terms of freedom of dignity and non-humiliation?

i can understand it was quite a vulgar picture they decided to publish, but it is after all, a drawing. can they actually put someone in jail for drawing the son of the head of state and his wife naked? is it really that serious? i thought we were not living under a dictatorship anymore. this is the kind of behaviour that would have happened in spain when franco was the head of state if someone did something like that.
__________________
Sign the United Nations Universal Declaration on Animal Welfare: http://www.animalsmatter.org
YOUR DAILY CLICK HELPS ANIMALS SURVIVE!
Feed an animal in need, click for free.
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Take some time to sign the petitions @: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/animal-welfare/all
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 07-21-2007, 02:37 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Micky's, United States
Posts: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora810 View Post
And as far as this magazine this seems to cross a line I understand it's just a cartoon and it's not really them but still I believe there definitely needs to be a line drawn somewhere. This magazine could have still had this same caricature without making it about their royalty. I understand that would not have been as eye catching but still it comes down to dignity. Doesn't anyone have dignity and respect for others anymore. I applaud the government for seizing the magazines. Just because they are public figures doesn't mean they are fair game to be used to make a distasteful point about the birth rate.
Exactly. And what is the public interest angle of a married couple having sex in private? They may be public figures but what they do in their bedroom is still private and no one else's business. They are not cheating on anyone (no analogy to Clinton). They are not lying to anyone (no analogy to Cliton). Heck, they have two daughters to prove they have sex. It is a private matter. So where is the fun or punch line for the cartoonist to make?

This is not about exposing any illicit behaviors of public figures for public interest. The magazine is using the shock value to sell magazines. This is about exploiring public figures for monetary gain. This has nothing to do with the principal of freedom of the press or freedom of expression. I think the magazine should get a hefty fine and make a public appology.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 07-21-2007, 02:39 PM
lula's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Spain
Posts: 16,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by ...sOfIa.... View Post
Thanks for the article. So it is saying that Casa Real did not request the judicial hearing...

I'm sort of about it. I somehow can't see The Princes themselves getting 'worked up' over the cartoon/writing because at the end of the day it is just a cartoon. Surely they would expect things like this to happen someday?

This makes me think that perhaps The Royal family didn't order the ban to happen, but since it is the law, it happened anyway.

I don't know..
The District attorney has the duty to tackle legal actions if he believes that there is a crime.

In this case, the Royal Household, and more concretly the Princes are only spectators. How many barbarities have said on the Princess? Nobody has been denounced ever, to more that they come it is to a telephonic call or a letter ... never a denunciation.

The judicial power is independent. The district attorney has decided that there is crime, the judge thinks the same thing, and legal actions are tackled.
The Royal House has not to think about the topic, the justice is independent and its decisions aren´t commented do not even question. The Royal House must be neutral.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 07-22-2007, 02:38 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
Name me one European country that employs lese-majeste laws.
Netherland. Before this sex cartoon, many didn't know Spain has lese-majeste laws. Perhaps some other countries with monarchy also employ similar laws, we just don't know.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 07-22-2007, 02:55 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan View Post
I don't think that those who like the monarchy are happy with this situation, which is more likely to do harm than good to the way monarchy is perceived in Spain.

As a consequence of this banning everybody has seen the cartoon and the magazine has got free advertising.

Moreover, if it is true that the measure was taken without regard to the condition of royals of the caracters in the cartoon, there is a comparative offence for those other public persons that have been depicted in the magazine in similar situations. For example, on 20minutos.es you can see a series of covers that can be much more outreageous than this one, for instance the cover entitled "Aznar going crazy like a ****ing goat", in which we see the nude character of former Prime Minister wearing cowboy boots and "attacking" his wife from behind. Now Aznar and wife may wonder why that issue of El Jueves was not banned.
The good side is that it sets the limit for the future, otherwise the worse is still to come. It looked like the cartoonist was a bit scared. He was lying that the drawing was actually Tom Cruise and Katie Holms. Obviously it looks nothing like Tom and Katie.
Aznar and his wife are not protected by lese-majeste laws. They would have to file a lawsuit against El Jueves themselves.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 07-22-2007, 03:01 AM
madeleine victoria's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: cavite, Philippines
Posts: 775
It's been said that Casa Real didn't order the banning of pictures but I think it's just right that they should be banned. Freedom to express your opinion is present in every country but it has its limits. I think El Jueves crossed that limit.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 07-22-2007, 05:05 AM
crisscross1's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 818
What a clever person that ridiculas cartoonist is. He has world wide attention and masses of coverage of his tasteless work, and that is probably all he ever wanted.
I wonder how he would feel if it were his wife, daughter, sister,
mother being depicted in such a cartoon. Now that would be funny.
__________________
Everyone is born right-handed, only the gifted overcome it!!
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 07-22-2007, 05:44 AM
rominet09's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: LIEGE, Belgium
Posts: 2,720
I'd like to ab able to form my jugment, where can we see the cartoon ?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 07-22-2007, 06:05 AM
lula's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Spain
Posts: 16,686
Carlota, in Spain there are examples of people that has denounced to magazines or programs of television, with which the judge has taken measurements.

The bullfighter Francisco Rivera has achieved for two times, that the emission of programs on her mother stops, and until the judge has not seen if it was constitutive of crime to the intimacy or not, they could not have emitted it. And bearing it in mind, that his mother was a woman who was selling all her intimate life to the press. Recently the same bullfighter has got an indemnification for interference in his private life.

And also I remember the recent case of a singer indemnify for something that they had said of her in a program of television.
Also these days was commenting a journalist that a lawyer has obtained that for judicial order a magazine was withdrawing an article about he.

The press takes advantage of the freedom that has, and often they exceed their " freedom of press ", and commit crimes against the rights of other citizens. It is a reality. Increasingly the people dare to denounce, a few times win and others lose ... but already it is not important for them if a program of television or a magazine, it criticizes them more or emits or publish something to take revenge for them.

In the last years, against the Royal House, and specially against the Princess of Asturias, there have been many interferences in their private life, which they might be considered to be a crime. It is the affected one the Princess or affected any anonymous person ... because there are many precedents in the matter. And let's not say, if what is said affects a child, since it has happened with the barbarities that have been invented on Leonor.

The Royal House, in order that the way in question does not acquire furthermore relevancy, never denounces. Probably what has happened in this occasion they have not liked, for both sides.

The District attorney and the judge have taken a decision, and the justice is free and independent power, on which action the Royal House must not think. The Royal House already had warned in several occasions "El Jueves" in order that was thinking about some of their drawings. Ultimately it has passed that each one had made what has wanted ... and the real harmed , are to the margin seeing what happens.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 07-22-2007, 08:43 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 8,416
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
The good side is that it sets the limit for the future, otherwise the worse is still to come. It looked like the cartoonist was a bit scared. He was lying that the drawing was actually Tom Cruise and Katie Holms. Obviously it looks nothing like Tom and Katie.
Well, the whole thing is supposed to be / hides behind satire and that's the way his answer should be looked at. He's not scared but continues with what he does the whole day, ridiculing people. Why should he be scared? The ban makes it an even bigger success for the mag and I doubt there will be a limit for the future. They might not do something like that every week but in gerenal the whole thing won't turn this kind of press into deep thinkers who'll reflect on what might hurt the princes before they publish something. And if the courts have to decide again, so what?

I bet many people who have been indifferent before are now annoyed because of the ban and it somehow reflects on the monarchy / the princes although they are only spectators.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 07-22-2007, 09:20 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: newyork, United States
Posts: 479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Well, the whole thing is supposed to be / hides behind satire and that's the way his answer should be looked at. He's not scared but continues with what he does the whole day, ridiculing people. Why should he be scared? The ban makes it an even bigger success for the mag and I doubt there will be a limit for the future. They might not do something like that every week but in gerenal the whole thing won't turn this kind of press into deep thinkers who'll reflect on what might hurt the princes before they publish something. And if the courts have to decide again, so what?

I bet many people who have been indifferent before are now annoyed because of the ban and it somehow reflects on the monarchy / the princes although they are only spectators.


I agree with you the satirist isn't scared he is getting more than he ever probably dreamed of with all the attention this has gotten. And a magazine has now more publicity than it ever had so it is a win for them. The one that is not going to fair well are the royals in this. I know that they had nothing to do with the ban but if you don't read and know the rules people will think it is their fault. It simply gives those who don't like the princess and the royals in general more to complain and blame them for.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 07-22-2007, 09:29 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 8,416
Quote:
Originally Posted by seto View Post
I agree with you the satirist isn't scared he is getting more than he ever probably dreamed of with all the attention this has gotten. And a magazine has now more publicity than it ever had so it is a win for them. The one that is not going to fair well are the royals in this. I know that they had nothing to do with the ban but if you don't read and know the rules people will think it is their fault. It simply gives those who don't like the princess and the royals in general more to complain and blame them for.
Exactly.

By the way, the quality of the caricature is great, I mean in terms of the drawing, apart from the delicate situation they are in. He hit the nail on the head when caricaturing the facial features of F & L
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 07-22-2007, 05:11 PM
Royal Highness
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1,734
I think that all is allowed...until real offenses and lack of respects appears. All persons, royals or not, have its dignity, and they wouldn't be offended in any way...How could it be that these "ultra-democratics" begings to protest and cry when there are TV shows where you see jokes on fat people, of scenes of spanking and now, they are here saying that "anyone could say and do whatever they wants"? That's a contradiction.

I'm a high fan of satire (I'm a regular viewer of Benny Hill..so I'm not a stupid prude nor anything over these lines), but there is limits. And no, even in "democracy" (that nowadays seems to be more a synonimous to "anarchie" than to responsible freedom) you can't say and do whatever you want to. We are living n society, along with other people, and our freedom ends where theirs begins. We can be fun, we can laugh, but WE CAN'T OFFEND...in any way. And we can't be cruel and mean. And do things only to get money on them. You are always speaking about human rights. Well, respect to other persons is among these human rights. I can't call a person plainly "fat" and must replace the word for other silly synonimous as "overweight person"...but I can draw an offensive cartoon and difame other persons. Crazy, crazy world we are living in. Censure take away the "Benny Hill Show" for it was "chauvinist" and this and that...But allow these unrespectful cartoonist to draw awful things, for that's right!!!! Sorry people, but modern world is an ugly hypocrisy disguised in a bland, affected, insincere humanism.

You all knows that I am not a great fan of Princess of Asturias. But you all also knows that I fixed my own limits when speaking about her. I wouldn't difame Princess Letizia, nor make up things about her, nor spread false rumors about her life. She is the mother of the two Infantas, and if she wouldn't do anything REALLY wrong, I must not speak badly about her. In the case she really did, it's not my affair, nor yours, but Spaniard Justice. And of course "mean" cartoons are out of question.

Oh, and for those who saids that the "artistic quality" of the cartoons is very high, you must remember that the message is the thing that counts. Will you take a dangerous, destructive poison, only for it comes in a nice, very artistic package?

The one who needs a severe and very caustic, mercyless cartoon is our modern society, plenty of people who, in the name of freedom, is able to accept the worse examles and approve them clapping happily.

Vanesa.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 07-22-2007, 06:17 PM
nagore's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bilbao, Spain
Posts: 133
Something has a limit. Can´t offend deliberately in the name of the freedom.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 07-23-2007, 02:11 AM
lucien's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 6,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora810 View Post
Well I believe just the opposite. It sets a precedent that this type of tastless humor concerning public figures will not be tolerated. These are much more then just the Prince and Princess of Spain. These are human beings, this a mother and a father, a sister, a brother, a aunt, a uncle, etc. Why couldn't the magazine had used just regular people to depict this? They could have chosen that route but they went for the shock value instead!
Shock value,but most of all,money.The freedom of press is going way overboard once again,and I believe strongly that should be curtailed as it has become en vogue to the limits to insult and drag people through the mud at all times,and let no-one hide behind human rights in regard of Jueves in this case,it's moot to a fauld.Insults and lies have become such a pre-dominant part of the rags/press,there is no end to it if one doesn't put a foot on it.Dictatorial?NO!Just an appeal to respect values and privacy,rare commodities these days,both of which have been totally disregarded by Jueves.Furthermore it shows a total lack of taste except uncalled for vulgarity,but that has become SO "normal" that if one takes abrupt and just measures against it,all hell brakes loose.It tells a lot about how peoples minds (dis-)functions by thinking all is allowed.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 07-23-2007, 10:10 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 8,416
Spanien: Run auf Zeitschrift mit Sexkarikatur von Letizia - Boulevard - Panorama - FOCUS Online

A german article re the issue. German media is very interested as there are similar cases from time to time over there.

It says that people are now paying up to 2.500 (!) Euro for an issue of the mag (was sold for 2,50 Euro) and that the mag (70.000 issues) was already sold out before the ban was in place.

Further, the Spanish Government, María Teresa Fernández de la Vega critizised the ban and labled it as old fashioned. She said that there should be no limit to the freedom of opinion and that the ban was ridiculous since the cartoon is still shown on countless websites.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Issues Related to Jorge Zorreguita's Role in the Videla Regime Marengo King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima and family 49 02-09-2013 06:02 AM
Which Royal, Princely or Noble houses are the Grimaldis related to? And how? Thtregoddess11 Princely Family of Monaco 7 09-27-2011 01:45 PM
Titles, Legal Status, Precedence and other related matters of the Hohenzollerns Julia The Royal and Princely Houses of Hohenzollern 39 07-20-2011 10:07 AM
Princess Caroline - Cover Girl Julia Princess Caroline and Family 271 05-27-2006 01:41 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events diana fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta elena jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games ottoman pieter van vollenhoven pom pregnancy president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince laurent prince pieter-christiaan princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess elisabeth princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marie princess marilene princess mary queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia spain state visit wedding william


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:13 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]