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  #161  
Old 09-05-2013, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
The king was with her ​​young lover on a luxury hunt while the country was in the worst week of the economic crisis.

Infanta Cristina and her husband are involved in a serious case of corruption, embezzlement and fraud to the Treasury... and the king have sought for them a haven of luxury in Switzerland. ... [snipped]
Your reply still does not answer my question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrara View Post
Not if they are accurate and present for all to see:

a. Letizia:
Support your husband and the Royal House loyally, accept role as 4th most important female in the royal house even though you are the consort to the Crown Prince, work hard, perform all your duties responsibly and with great interest but dare to wear pants to military ceremonies, attend a few concerts with friends, go to the movies and leave Majorca as planned: get accused of not having adjusted to royal life.
... [snipped]
Infanta Christina's name will be linked to the scandal forever. Infanta Christina is not a part of official royal family anymore.

Given your post and lula's post, it is safe to say that no one should ever criticise Crown Princess Letizia because the other members of the Spanish royal family are worse than her.
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  #162  
Old 09-05-2013, 04:50 PM
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Al bina, the difference is between the critical of stupid petty things... and justified criticism for committing crimes.

Princess Letizia can be criticized for what she does wrong, but to be criticized in a proportionate manner.

Infanta Cristina is still a member of the Royal Family, removed of the official activities, but she still has her privileges intact... in Swiss exile is still enjoying security paid with the taxes of the Spanish people.

Ferrara, there are journalists that will never forgive the prince and Letizia relationship was not known by the press, thereby they lost the possibility to judge, criticize and make money. Others believe that Letizia is simply a journalist commoner, and therefore equal or inferior to them. When a journalists is passed to the other side is not generally well treated.
For example, Sara Carbonero, girlfriend of Iker Casillas also receives many attacks from other journalists.
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  #163  
Old 09-05-2013, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Of all the current European Crown Princesses I would say Letizia is in my opinion is the least convincing of them all. They've all settled into their roles where as Letizia still seems to be struggling to find her niche. But I wouldn't blame the Palace for her predicament,Letizia is a very shrewd and intelligent woman,if there's a blame game going on I'd says its 50/50 (Letizia/Palace).
Her shrewdness and her vaunted intelligence is one reason I have difficulty drumming up a lot of sympathy for her. This was a worldly, accomplished woman marrying into one of Spain's oldest, most entrenched and most conservative institutions next to the Church-the Monarchy.

She knew that she would have to do certain things that might be distasteful to her, like give up much of her privacy and submit to a certain amount of press intrusion even when on holiday. For goodness sake, even CP MM of Norway understands this part of her "job", even Daniel Westling in Sweden does.

After nine years, if she still doesn't understand the give-and-take required of any person in public life, she is perhaps not as intelligent as we all have been told she is.
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  #164  
Old 09-05-2013, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post

ETA: Ferrara, more so-called "plebeians" than Royals or Nobles have married into the Royal houses in modern times. Among them, Letizia alone seems to have a talent for stirring up hostility.

I think the time is way past to play the "blame the poor commoner" game when the plebeians have done quite well for themselves everywhere else.
Most of the others married into royal houses and countries with social, political and economic conditions which are very, very different from Casa Real and Spain. So there are structural conditions rather than just an individual person at play here.
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  #165  
Old 09-05-2013, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Your reply still does not answer my question.


Infanta Christina's name will be linked to the scandal forever. Infanta Christina is not a part of official royal family anymore.

Given your post and lula's post, it is safe to say that no one should ever criticise Crown Princess Letizia because the other members of the Spanish royal family are worse than her.

I am not advocating that no one should criticize her in my post. All I am highlighting is that there are obvious double standards in how the press treats Princess Letizia when compared to other members of the royal house.
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  #166  
Old 09-05-2013, 05:18 PM
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Reading some opinions, I see that some are totally unaware of how it works Spanish press.

Moonmaiden23, Spanish press believe they are entitled to pursue the Princess 24 hours a day 365 days a year. Never mind that the princess and her family pose for the press several times in early summer ... they want pictures every day, everything they do and every place they go. That's the reason Letizia does not like Mallorca in august, because there she and her daughters have no privacy.

The Princess and her children have received all kinds of attacks, however, the Spanish Royal House never complaint anything.

In the Netherlands, the Royal Family has a code that scrupulously respects the press, in Norway whenever something bothers the Royal House makes an official complaint.

In Spain the press never apologizes for anything... Princess family has been persecuted and harassed in the streets ... their elderly grandparents, her pregnant sister and niece to five years the day after her mother died ... that's the Spanish press...

Probably no European princess has endured harassment and pressure level experienced by the Spanish. Perhaps could occur in Britain, but after what happened with Diana, the press itself and the British royal family have been charged with protecting Kate.

King Juan Carlos has always been protected, not attacked the press and the press not attacked him ... had many things to hide and so everyone was happy. In that situation the Princess Letizia was the perfect victim, because the royal family would never risk losing that protection to defend her.
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  #167  
Old 09-05-2013, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrara View Post
Most of the others married into royal houses and countries with social, political and economic conditions which are very, very different from Casa Real and Spain. So there are structural conditions rather than just an individual person at play here.
I think it has a lot to do with individual character. On day 1 Letizia came on the stage with a bang (she only had done the evening news for a very short time, so most Spaniards didnt know her at all) and the first impression wasnt positive. Many people didnt like her snappy attitude that is great for career but not when marrying the heir to the throne, talking all the time, giving the impression to be quite full of herself. Letizia is usually quite 'serious' that often comes across as cold or arrogant (eg Maxima called WA 'dumb' at her first press conference and it turned the audience from negative into positive, the begin of a love story with the public).

So, to this very day Letizia is not popular at all and I believe that she still wouldnt be popular with neutral press. To me, character & supposed position simply don't match.
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  #168  
Old 09-05-2013, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrara View Post
Most of the others married into royal houses and countries with social, political and economic conditions which are very, very different from Casa Real and Spain. So there are structural conditions rather than just an individual person at play here.
Very true, and as a well-informed member of the Fourth Estate Letizia Ortiz knew that and was still-by some accounts-very eager to marry the man she loved and assimulate into it.

She knew her own character and personality well enough by age thirty to know that it might not necessarily be a good fit.
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  #169  
Old 09-05-2013, 05:38 PM
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I'm still at odds believing that Letizia is not popular in Spain at all,I had thought she had popularity on her side but if she doesn't as a future queen consort its slightly worrying.
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  #170  
Old 09-05-2013, 05:49 PM
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I agree with you An Ard Ri. I think Letizia has her share of supporters in Spain. She has won several polls since her marriage. But she is very controversial for the wife of an heir, and that does not bode well for the Borbons or the monarchy in Spain, imo.
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  #171  
Old 09-05-2013, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Her shrewdness and her vaunted intelligence is one reason I have difficulty drumming up a lot of sympathy for her. This was a worldly, accomplished woman marrying into one of Spain's oldest, most entrenched and most conservative institutions next to the Church-the Monarchy.

She knew that she would have to do certain things that might be distasteful to her, like give up much of her privacy and submit to a certain amount of press intrusion even when on holiday.

After nine years, if she still doesn't understand the give-and-take required of any person in public life, she is perhaps not as intelligent as we all have been told she is.
Thank you for this post She also seems stubborn to me.
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  #172  
Old 09-05-2013, 06:05 PM
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Duke, I think the opposite... at least in the long term...
because without character, without strength ... you can not withstand the pressure. If you are a weak person you are drawn away and dazzle ... and then you end up like Iñaki.

I do not think Letizia knew all about the king's lovers and business, Iñaki's business, or that upfront prepayment severe economic and institutional crisis that Spain would suffer. Nobody could have imagined in 2003 that things would turn out the way they did. In many ways, she is simply a victim of a series of circumstances.

I think the prince and princess know the path they want to follow, but they know that whith King Juan Carlos is impossible. They can not think only about today or tomorrow, should think long term, and on occasion it has meant to be the "bad guys" of history, especially in the case of Letizia.

Probably if the prince had not been away from Palmas, today there would be no future for the monarchy... but for years was princess Letizia who was accused of being the culprit of family problems.

At the end of time puts things in place... and finally we will know the cause of this sudden and aggressive attack on the princess. Mallorca was just the excuse.
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  #173  
Old 09-05-2013, 06:27 PM
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I'm amazed how people say stuff like "fully aware of the institution she married into". Now tell me, how does a plebeian know what's the Royal life? Of course she had magazines and news to report, she certainly wasn't dumb, but knowing outsite is WAY diferent from living inside. No one can say how it's like to be a royal if they're not royalty or nobility.

As lula said MANY times before, the Spanish press is one of the worst and agressive presses around, I'm not defending Letizia because as I said before she sure has a strong personality and authority charater, but I'm sure if that type of press were to be at other monarchy (not counting the British), people would say the same about the other CPs what they say about Letizia.

The women isn't the blame of all troubles, and I admire her, yes I do, because I'm pretty sure any other person would have "lived" through this. I'm pretty sure I would live in misery and depression if I had everything Letizia has on her shoulders.
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  #174  
Old 09-05-2013, 06:37 PM
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[QUOTE="dbarn67;1596273"
In Letizia's defense, Maxima married into a relatively happy royal family with a female monarch who was clearly delighted to have a lively independent daughter-in-law. IMO Letizia married into an unhappy family with a male monarch who is of the old school where in women have a place of pretty adornments who's opinions and "intelligence" mean little. Like others have said, if Letizia is a intelligence and especially as a former journalist I'd have thought she had a clear understanding of what she getting into when she married Felipe.[/QUOTE
Agree with you. In the top of that i would say that Maxima has been accepted "open arms" by her husbands family, not Letizia.
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  #175  
Old 09-05-2013, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
I'm still at odds believing that Letizia is not popular in Spain at all,I had thought she had popularity on her side but if she doesn't as a future queen consort its slightly worrying.
I too held a level of popularity and won several popularity polls. She does
not exude warmth and hasn't seemed to fully embrace royal life. She
projects a distance herself and Felipe (and the girls) and everyone else.
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  #176  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:41 PM
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On top of everything else, we do not know what is being said or done within the palace itself. Tht could be very enlightening.
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  #177  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:42 PM
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I have a whole bag full of opinions about this whole situation. From King JC to Letizia herself and the press, and a whole lot in between. There have been too many situations in Spain and with Letizia that have led to how the press is reporting. I don't think she started out with a firm footing and a clear direction. Throw in 2 difficult pregnancies, her sister's death and the Noos/Christina/JC scandal. Also, I don't think that she has the best disposition some days. She does seem very disinterested a lot of time.
I would love to see her get involved with something she is passionate about, kind of like Kate/Scouts, Mary/Bullying and Maxima/Micro Credit. I think it would give her some direction and positive press, but what do I know.
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  #178  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:57 PM
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I think that Leti is a nice enough person (who yes, surely has her faults, some of them big ones like the rest of us) who does not deserve half the derision she receives. What the heck did the Spanish people want in a CP?

And Jeez Louise, only in Spain can Cristina get a golden parachute to Geneva and Leti be somehow still being the bad girl of the Bourbons.
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  #179  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:15 PM
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And Jeez Louise, only in Spain can Cristina get a golden parachute to Geneva and Leti be somehow still being the bad girl of the Bourbons.
Why but of course, Giraffe. Only in Spain do they have the Bourbons.

But seriously, you're spot on. People are being more critical than they need to be (but then isn't that typical of royal watching in general?).
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  #180  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess gertrude View Post
I have a whole bag full of opinions about this whole situation. From King JC to Letizia herself and the press, and a whole lot in between. There have been too many situations in Spain and with Letizia that have led to how the press is reporting. I don't think she started out with a firm footing and a clear direction. Throw in 2 difficult pregnancies, her sister's death and the Noos/Christina/JC scandal. Also, I don't think that she has the best disposition some days. She does seem very disinterested a lot of time.
I would love to see her get involved with something she is passionate about, kind of like Kate/Scouts, Mary/Bullying and Maxima/Micro Credit. I think it would give her some direction and positive press, but what do I know.
I'd like to see that as well. Despite the fact that she has been on the Royal scene nearly a decade we know nothing about her, really, except that she read the news and was in a brief marriage before Felipe.

What are her hobbies, her passions? It would go a good way toward humanizing a woman I frankly see as rather cold, humorless and obsessed with her appearance.

Unfortunately I do not think Casa Real would ever allow a softening, humanizing process for her and that is a huge mistake, imo.
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