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  #501  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
The standards for royal marriages are very low nowadays. Both Spain and Norway followed the low standard trend, I guess.
Your opinion, nor mine. I think Letizia, Princess of Asturias, is doing a great job.
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  #502  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:05 AM
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She is the Crown Princess of Spain. You live in this country. So you ardently defend her. It is your full right to do so. Crown Princess Letizia is nothing special for me. Her achievements are adequate, but not exceptional. When compared to her royal colleagues, she is just as usual as they are.

Emotional proclamations are more appropriate for plebeians.
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  #503  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Alondra View Post

As to Mary and Kate being intellectual nobodies, I'm not saying that. The press in Spain, however, would have fully exploited their lack of individual professional credentials.
Ok, Letizia may be doing great job as a princess.

But how do you personally know that Mary and Kate are absolute intellectual nobodies? As far as I know Kate pursued high studies in History of Art, and Mary seems to have a good general culture.

I could say Letizia is average ( besides beauty) but I can't call her " nobody" unless I have opportunity to talk to her or listen to somebody's discussion with her.
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  #504  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
Annie, this has been explained a millions time before. Some people prefer not to get it, or prefer forgetting it the moment they read it.

It does my head in that some people still think a catholic marriage may only be dissolved by the "inquisition"
And this leads us to another "favourite" of mine, the: "Being Spain such a conservative Catholic country they can´t like Letizia" argument.

Yeah, hello world, we are Spain and this is what we do every sunny Sunday on the main square of the town:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Inquisicao.jpg

(Please, note that the people on fire are divorced women)

...........
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  #505  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post

She is the Crown Princess of Spain. You live in this country. So you ardently defend her. It is your full right to do so. Crown Princess Letizia is nothing special for me. Her achievements are adequate, but not exceptional. When compared to her royal colleagues, she is just as usual as they are.

Emotional proclamations are more appropriate for plebeians.
When you say her achievements are compared to her royal colleagues, can you please elaborate?
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  #506  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
And this leads us to another "favourite" of mine, the: "Being Spain such a conservative Catholic country they can´t like Letizia" argument.

Yeah, hello world, we are Spain and this is what we do every sunny Sunday on the main square of the town:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Inquisicao.jpg

(Please, note that the people on fire are divorced women)

...........
Naahhh, Spain can't certainly not be a country pioneering gay marriage and adoption of children by gay couples. NO WAY.

We're Catholic and apparently incompatible with civil marriage laws. Time to burn Letizia at the stake.
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  #507  
Old 04-24-2014, 08:03 PM
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Veering off the topic

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Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
When you say her achievements are compared to her royal colleagues, can you please elaborate?
Queen Mathilde of Belgium earned a master's degree in psychology with honours and speaks French, Dutch, Italian, and English.
Princess Kiko of Japan completed the first part of the doctorate in psychology in 1995 and granted Ph.D. from the Graduate School of Humanities and Sciences, Ochanomizu University" in 2013. She speaks German and English.
Crown Princess Masako worked for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. She is fluent in English and French, and is said to be of conversational standard in German, Russian, and Spanish. Crown Princess Masako attended Radcliffe College,holds an A.B. Magna Cum Laude in Economics from Harvard College and attended but did not finish the graduate course in International Relations at Balliol College, Oxford University.

Other Crown Princesses, Princesses, and Queens have BA and MA that are similar to Crown Princess Letizia's one. I do not think that Master's degree is something special. Most of them worked away from the public eye.
On a different note, it be expedient to agree to disagree as the discussion is running in circles.
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  #508  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Queen Mathilde of Belgium earned a master's degree in psychology with honours and speaks French, Dutch, Italian, and English.
Princess Kiko of Japan completed the first part of the doctorate in psychology in 1995 and granted Ph.D. from the Graduate School of Humanities and Sciences, Ochanomizu University" in 2013. She speaks German and English.
Crown Princess Masako worked for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. She is fluent in English and French, and is said to be of conversational standard in German, Russian, and Spanish. Crown Princess Masako attended Radcliffe College,holds an A.B. Magna Cum Laude in Economics from Harvard College and attended but did not finish the graduate course in International Relations at Balliol College, Oxford University.

Other Crown Princesses, Princesses, and Queens have BA and MA that are similar to Crown Princess Letizia's one. I do not think that Master's degree is something special. Furthermore, it be expedient to agree to disagree as the discussion is running in circles.

It is not just the matter of having academic degrees.

The last criticism that one can level at Letizia is she is lightweight intellectually. Even to this present day, there are numerous press reports on how people who met Letizia come away impressed with her knowledge ....how she has helped Felipe a lot (besides helping him loosen up and gain a common touch)

There is a well known anecdote on how during first couple of years of marriage, her intellect was threatening, off-putting in the Burbon family circle. Once when the whole family, plus cousins et all were at dinner and the discussion turned to Iraq war, Letizia (still in her journalist mode) started talking in detail about the dynamics, undercurrents, and future problems with the war and Iraqi political setup. King was not amused. He basically told her that everyone knows how much you know, how intelligent you are, but you need not speak.

Of all the princesses mentioned above, Princess Masako is the one who is intelectual heavy-weight and we can all see how cruel her treatment has been, how reduced she has been.
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  #509  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:28 PM
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Letizia has a good academic level to what he wanted to be: a journalist.

Letizia had a good professional career as a journalist, and is doing a good job as a princess in my opinion.
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  #510  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:29 PM
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jjkg, agree with you, Alondra and Annie_S that the last criticism that can be levelled at Letizia is that she's an intellectual lightweight. I have read reports on Letizia and Felipe since their marriage in 2004 and almost everyone who has met her has used the phrase 'highly intelligent' to describe her. Besides Spaniards, this comment has also come from the editor of the US version of Time magazine who met them both when they visited the U.S. two years ago. Bill Clinton and Gabriel Garcia Marquez have also come away very impressed.

Finally, reporting from ground zero, Iraq, the US presidential elections are all incredibly important assignments for any news organizations, let alone the premier tv channel for Spain. These are assignments that most reporters would want and to be assigned to them over all others is a clear sign of the quality of her work and her analytical skills in a highly competitive profession.

Besides her intelligence, the other quality that I see in her is her obvious affinity, love and warmth for children, youth, the disadvantaged and disabled. These qualities come through in all the photos that we have of her in such events. It is too bad that there is so little focus on that.
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  #511  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I don't think that Letizia is an intellectual leightweight and she did have a promising career ahead of her, but marrying into a royal family is something else. While most female newsreaders will be exchanged when they get older because of fading looks, marrying a prince and a future as queen will put yourself and your assets on a global map for the rest of your life and guarantee global attention, something that seemed certainly appealing to Letizia.

So in terms of social climing, any woman marrying into a royal family who is not royal herself, eg as Sofia, Letizia is as much 'trepa' as other princesses, imo.

To reduce her to "Newsreader" from an "anchor"/"journalist" is something
Newsreader implies "bimbo", all "t*ts", little "brains", just enough to read a script from teleprompter, a script written by someone else who had actual brains


Given this, how can a newsreader be sent to cover most significant world events? It defies logic! The whole senior management would have been sacked instantly.

One cannot hide or fake lack of intellect, knowledge, competence etc during the intense scrutiny of highest profile events in the world. Look at example of Sarah Palin in US. Her act fell through pretty quickly and she is pretty much a laughing stock.

When Letizia covered the 2000 US elections fiasco, her audience, her management would have thrown her out instantly if she had failed to grasp the situation, and report on the nuances. Same goes for 9/11 and Iraq war!

Yes she was more in the mold of an anchor-roving reporter than a pure war reporter who live their lives in war zones. And yes, I am sure her looks, and her voice put her in the "anchor" track of journalism rather than pure "war reporter" or print reporter etc.

But intellect, analytical skills etc are the base foundation. Looks and voice are just the icing!
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  #512  
Old 04-24-2014, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrara View Post
jjkg, agree with you, Alondra and Annie_S that the last criticism that can be levelled at Letizia is that she's an intellectual lightweight. I have read reports on Letizia and Felipe since their marriage in 2004 and almost everyone who has met her has used the phrase 'highly intelligent' to describe her. Besides Spaniards, this comment has also come from the editor of the US version of Time magazine who met them both when they visited the U.S. two years ago. Bill Clinton and Gabriel Garcia Marquez have also come away very impressed.

Finally, reporting from ground zero, Iraq, the US presidential elections are all incredibly important assignments for any news organizations, let alone the premier tv channel for Spain. These are assignments that most reporters would want and to be assigned to them over all others is a clear sign of the quality of her work and her analytical skills in a highly competitive profession.

Besides her intelligence, the other quality that I see in her is her obvious affinity, love and warmth for children, youth, the disadvantaged and disabled. These qualities come through in all the photos that we have of her in such events. It is too bad that there is so little focus on that.

There is also a story about a financial reporter (from NY times or Chicago tribune, I think) where he had gone to meet Letizia expecting to be impressed with her looks and came away impressed by her intellect. Now this is a serious, wonkish reporter from another country who came away brimming with positive impression.

What is really interesting with all things Letizia is when you peel back the layers of anti-Leti narrative in press, is that reality is quite different, be it her intellect, or her relationship with common people on the street, or her relationship with her in-laws etc.

She is no paragon of virtue, but there seems to be a strong anti-Letizia bias from day one. Perhaps she carries an extra burden because she herself came from the journalistic community. But a narrative was established and every event she is at, every outing, every action, somehow or other facts are twisted to fit the narrative. If truth is exposed, there is silence and then back to usual anti-Letizia programming the very next day.



PS: In the past couple of days, there is yet another story making rounds on reporter back-tracking on the negative story he published regarding Letizia's supposed arrogant behavior during Pope Francis's inauguration. Now the reporter is totally impressed with her given that he has had a chance to talk to her. Unfortunately the damage is done
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  #513  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jjkg View Post

What is really interesting with all things Letizia is when you peel back the layers of anti-Leti narrative in press, is that reality is quite different, be it her intellect, or her relationship with common people on the street, or her relationship with her in-laws etc.

She is no paragon of virtue, but there seems to be a strong anti-Letizia bias from day one. Perhaps she carries an extra burden because she herself came from the journalistic community. But a narrative was established and every event she is at, every outing, every action, somehow or other facts are twisted to fit the narrative. If truth is exposed, there is silence and then back to usual anti-Letizia programming the very next day.

Yes, exactly especially when there are so many utterly credible sources that point to and corroborate all the positive facets of her character. Like you, I don't think that she's a paragon of virtue either but neither is she the caricature that is often painted of her.
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  #514  
Old 04-24-2014, 11:22 PM
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I didn't mean different sects within Christianity would be a problem in Spain, i meant that marriage for Catholics is soluble only by death or annulment [neither of whch applied to the princess' first marriage].

I accept that both Mary and Catherine would never have been accepted in your country [if you say it is so], but i'm bound to say 'being nobodies' and 'unintellectual' has hardly held back either women, both of whom are wildly popular and are an adornment to the dynasties into which they have married.

I had hoped Spain had rather more advanced, less xenophobic and intellectually/socially snobbish attitudes in the 21st century !

I find it very sad that such antiquated ideas still prevail there.

The only type of marriage that the Roman Catholic Church considers indissoluble is a valid, sacramental marriage between two baptized persons.

Letizia Ortiz did not have a sacramental marriage before she married Felipe. She had only a civil ceremony, which meant that in the eyes of the Church she was never married at all, so no annulment of her first marriage was necessary.

It's not a matter of the Church modernizing or "getting with the times". If Letizia had been married in Church to her first husband, she would not have been able to marry Felipe and become Princess of Asturias.

Sometimes even Catholics seem ignorant on this matter which always shocks me.
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  #515  
Old 04-25-2014, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
I for one think that Crown Princess Letizia belongs to intellectual lightweights as well. She was not a doctor or an engineer or a scientist. Her profession was not critically important to the public at large. Furthermore, any lady benefits from marring into a royal family.
Only doctors, engineers or scientists can be considered intellectual heavyweights, how about people who are excellent at literature, social studies (such as journalists) are intellectual lightweights ? That's pretty narrow minded. Letizia excelled at her profession before she married Felipe, that's all it matters. Yes she is very different from Kate who had let her decent 'Art of history' degree wasted all those years.
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:20 AM
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Only doctors, engineers or scientists can be considered intellectual heavyweights, how about people who are excellent at literature, social studies (such as journalists) are intellectual lightweights ? That's pretty narrow minded. Letizia excelled at her profession before she married Felipe, that's all it matters. Yes she is very different from Kate who had let her decent 'Art of history' degree wasted all those years.
I agree, but we could not say about Kate that " she is intellectual nobody" in comparison with Letizia. That sounds improper and rather rude.

Yes, Letizia excelled at her profession and she didn't waste her degree and that's excellent. But if even Letizia hadn't worked and wasted her degree, we couldn't call her " nobody" because she completed her studies anyway.
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  #517  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
Only doctors, engineers or scientists can be considered intellectual heavyweights, how about people who are excellent at literature, social studies (such as journalists) are intellectual lightweights ? That's pretty narrow minded. Letizia excelled at her profession before she married Felipe, that's all it matters. Yes she is very different from Kate who had let her decent 'Art of history' degree wasted all those years.
One may say that my personal views on some matters are narrow-minded. As I have already pointed, other Queens, Crown Princesses, and Princesses speak more than 2 languages, completed their Masters and Doctorate degrees, and worked prior to being married. So Crown Princess Letizia and her accomplishments are not special in this respect.

Her rabid fans tend to denigrate other royal ladies to emphasise her accomplishments. Such style of the discussion is off-putting.
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  #518  
Old 04-25-2014, 11:23 AM
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I have thought that this thread is about Letizia and the Press and not about Letizia and the other princesses.
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  #519  
Old 04-25-2014, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post


Her rabid fans tend to denigrate other royal ladies to emphasise her accomplishments. Such style of the discussion is off-putting.
Some people tend to denigrate Letizia systematically, and that´s not much more elegant

And by the way, I can grant that Masako, Kiko, Mathilde and others like for ex. Maxima have a more impressive CV than Letizia, but that doesn´t implies she´s at Mary or Kate´s level, because IMO (and I think I´m quite objective here, btw) she exceeded at her own field much more than the other two at theirs.
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  #520  
Old 04-25-2014, 04:40 PM
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Al_bina, nobody here called Masako/Kiko/Mathilde an intellectual lightweights, you were the one calling Letizia an intellectual lightweight, who obviously isn't true. In Spain, only those top students in their subjects could get EFE internship scholarships as Letizia used to get.
I have always been impressed by Mathilde's dedication to her own career instead of waiting for her prince to propose.

I don't think Maxima had a more impressive CV than Letizia. She had an OK/good job for someone with an economics degree in US. She was from a well connected family, after she got her degree, her family helped her finding a HSBC job in New York, everything came so easy for her, but still it doesn't mean she was an intellectual lightweight.
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