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  #481  
Old 04-22-2014, 10:31 AM
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@lula: I did not know that the harassment from the press's side had been so severe - that's absolutely horrible. It's one thing for them to go hard on adults, but to take their brutalities out on children is just vile and it makes the strained relationship between the SpRF and the press much more understandable.


@Alondra: I never said that all royal families can be compared, I merely said that it is a natural thing for people to compare the various royal families/royals (e.g. Crown Princess Mary of Denmark and the Duchess of Cambridge) to each other. Sometimes that's a good thing, other times it's a bad thing. Nor did I ever call the Infantas unmannerly, uneducated (I don't know where you're getting these things from ) or wanted them to be celebrities.

I did, however, say that from various pictures I have seen of the little ones, it seems they're not completely at ease in front of the cameras whereas, to use your example, the A-team seem much more comfortable around the press and the public. That probably largely comes down to bad encounters with the press in the past, as lula mentioned, and I completely understand that. However, one can only hope that they will find a way of managing the press as distancing themselves from press and public can be a lethal thing as well.
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  #482  
Old 04-24-2014, 06:49 AM
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[QUOTE}

@Alondra: I never said that all royal families can be compared, I merely said that it is a natural thing for people to compare the various royal families/royals (e.g. Crown Princess Mary of Denmark and the Duchess of Cambridge) to each other. Sometimes that's a good thing, other times it's a bad thing. Nor did I ever call the Infantas unmannerly, uneducated (I don't know where you're getting these things from ) or wanted them to be celebrities.

[/QUOTE]

To quote you.. "It's only natural to compare the different royal houses. I for one agree with Duke of Marmalade. I personally believe that it is best and healthiest for royal children who are destined for a life in the limelight to be introduced to the public eye from an early age."

The problem with comparisons, royal or not, is that our societies are not the same. Lula touched the issue of the press ....and it's an interesting subject.

Spain's Royal Family is a free for all in Spain. Our democracy is so healthy that Cristina, the daughter of a reigning king, had to testify in front of judge for 6 hours. Can you tell me how many European royals have been subjected to the same degree of legal scrutiny for an alleged corruption case worth less than 200,000 euros? [ I'm not defending Cristina, I DO want her charged for fraud. Just making a point.]

My impression of the press in Scandinavia, and other european coumtries, is that they toe a certain line where the royals are concerned. It's all very flowery and beautiful without any in depth reporting and opposite to what the press reports in Spain.

This is why comparisons are, not only odious,.but usually very uniformed.

BTW Mary and Kate as Spain's CP would've been dealt even harsher by the press than Letizia has been.
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  #483  
Old 04-24-2014, 07:45 AM
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Mary or Kate would've never been accepted as CP in Spain.
I am curious to know why not ? Neither of them were previously married [unlike the Princess of the Asturias], and [in a Catholic country] i would have thought that would be a MAJOR problem ? Neither the Crown Princess of Denmark, nor the the Duchess of Cambridge have put a foot wrong in supporting their husbands or the monarchy of which they are now an integral part.
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  #484  
Old 04-24-2014, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I am curious to know why not ? Neither of them were previously married [unlike the Princess of the Asturias], and [in a Catholic country] i would have thought that would be a MAJOR problem ? Neither the Crown Princess of Denmark, nor the the Duchess of Cambridge have put a foot wrong in supporting their husbands or the monarchy of which they are now an integral part.
Religion was never a problem in Spain. Queen Sofia, an Orthodox, married Juan Carlos, a Catholic, without a problem in 1962. They had dual ceremonies to deal with the issue. Letizia's previous civil marriage was also never a problem with the Catholic church when she married Fellpe in 2004 ...except in extreme right wing politics of course.

As to why neither Kate or Mary would have been accepted in Spain?

1. They are foreigners.
2. Professionally they were nobodies before their marriages. In Spain we call them "trepas" (women benefiting from a marriage to someone important)
3. Being intellectual lightweights.

Letizia is neither and she's still dealing with the right wing press crap.
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  #485  
Old 04-24-2014, 08:25 AM
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I didn't mean different sects within Christianity would be a problem in Spain, i meant that marriage for Catholics is soluble only by death or annulment [neither of whch applied to the princess' first marriage].

I accept that both Mary and Catherine would never have been accepted in your country [if you say it is so], but i'm bound to say 'being nobodies' and 'unintellectual' has hardly held back either women, both of whom are wildly popular and are an adornment to the dynasties into which they have married.

I had hoped Spain had rather more advanced, less xenophobic and intellectually/socially snobbish attitudes in the 21st century !

I find it very sad that such antiquated ideas still prevail there.
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  #486  
Old 04-24-2014, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I didn't mean different sects within Christianity would be a problem in Spain, i meant that marriage for Catholics is soluble only by death or annulment [neither of whch applied to the princess' first marriage].

I accept that both Mary and Catherine would never have been accepted in your country [if you say it is so], but i'm bound to say 'being nobodies' and 'unintellectual' has hardly held back either women, both of whom are wildly popular and are an adornment to the dynasties into which they have married.

I had hoped Spain had rather more advanced, less xenophobic and intellectually/socially snobbish attitudes in the 21st century !

I find it very sad that such antiquated ideas still prevail there.
You have a very outdated view of catholic marriage, or the world, today. This is 2014 - most European countries have separation of state - church and state.

As to Mary and Kate being intellectual nobodies, I'm not saying that. The press in Spain, however, would have fully exploited their lack of individual professional credentials.
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  #487  
Old 04-24-2014, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
Religion was never a problem in Spain. Queen Sofia, an Orthodox, married Juan Carlos, a Catholic, without a problem in 1962. They had dual ceremonies to deal with the issue. Letizia's previous civil marriage was also never a problem with the Catholic church when she married Fellpe in 2004 ...except in extreme right wing politics of course.

As to why neither Kate or Mary would have been accepted in Spain?

1. They are foreigners.
2. Professionally they were nobodies before their marriages. In Spain we call them "trepas" (women benefiting from a marriage to someone important)
3. Being intellectual lightweights.

Letizia is neither and she's still dealing with the right wing press crap.
I for one think that Crown Princess Letizia belongs to intellectual lightweights as well. She was not a doctor or an engineer or a scientist. Her profession was not critically important to the public at large. Furthermore, any lady benefits from marring into a royal family.
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  #488  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
I for one think that Crown Princess Letizia belongs to intellectual lightweights as well. She was not a doctor or engineer. Her profession was not critically important to the public at large. Furthermore, any lady benefits from marring into a royal family.
Letizia is a journalist with a Masters Degree in audiovisual journalism at the Institute for Studies in Audiovisual Journalism. She was also a TVE (Spain's National Television Network) front news anchor at 29 y.o. winning the youngest, most promising journalist of the year.

Before her marriage she reported from the 2000 US Elections, from Ground Zero following the 9/11, and in 2002 followed the war in Iraq. She was reporting from Galicia the ecological disaster of the Prestige oil tanker when she met Felipe.

She is certainly not an intellectual lightweiight. If she was one, I wouldn't want her as Queen of my country.
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  #489  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
She is a journalist with a Masters Degree in audiovisual journalism at the Institute for Studies in Audiovisual Journalism. She was also a TVE front news anchor at 29 y.o. winning the youngest, most promising journalist of the year.

Before her marriage she reported from the 2000 US Elections, from Ground Zero following the 9/11, and in 2002 followed the war in Iraq. She was reporting from Galicia the ecological disaster of the Prestige oil tanker when she met Felipe.

She is certainly not an intellectual lightweiight. If she was one, I wouldn't want her as Queen of my country.
Very well said
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  #490  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:24 AM
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Care Wyevale, your comments are out of line ... no offense to a country and its citizens, also because you have not understood at all what Alondra meant.

Queen Sofia is foreign and was educated in another religion and is queen of Spain for decades.

For the history of the Spanish monarchy, the role of Princess of Asturias, was very difficult for any woman. That woman was to occupy a position of power and privilege, and people in Spain is usually very critical of those who reach such positions by marriage. People do like to criticize the powerful, and is not snobbery or xenophobia ... is gossip. Understanding how works this "game" is not easy.

Maxima, Mathilde, Mary or Kate ... would have been criticized like Letizia if they were princesses in Spain. For each they would used different arguments.
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  #491  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:25 AM
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I don't think that Letizia is an intellectual leightweight and she did have a promising career ahead of her, but marrying into a royal family is something else. While most female newsreaders will be exchanged when they get older because of fading looks, marrying a prince and a future as queen will put yourself and your assets on a global map for the rest of your life and guarantee global attention, something that seemed certainly appealing to Letizia.

So in terms of social climing, any woman marrying into a royal family who is not royal herself, eg as Sofia, Letizia is as much 'trepa' as other princesses, imo.
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  #492  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
Letizia is a journalist with a Masters Degree in audiovisual journalism at the Institute for Studies in Audiovisual Journalism. She was also a TVE (Spain's National Television Network) front news anchor at 29 y.o. winning the youngest, most promising journalist of the year.

Before her marriage she reported from the 2000 US Elections, from Ground Zero following the 9/11, and in 2002 followed the war in Iraq. She was reporting from Galicia the ecological disaster of the Prestige oil tanker when she met Felipe.

She is certainly not an intellectual lightweiight. If she was one, I wouldn't want her as Queen of my country.
There is no need to list Crown Princess Letizia's CV. Reporting from hot spots was her job and enhanced her resume. Nothing else. I do not see journalist as a very important profession. The western mass media is marginally better than the non-western one.
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  #493  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I don't think that Letizia is an intellectual leightweight and she did have a promising career ahead of her, but marrying into a royal family is something else. While most female newsreaders will be exchanged when they get older because of fading looks, marrying a prince and a future as queen will put yourself and your assets on a global map for the rest of your life and guarantee global attention, something that seemed certainly appealing to Letizia.

So in terms of social climing, any woman marrying into a royal family who is not royal herself, eg as Sofia, Letizia is as much 'trepa' as other princesses, imo.
You are absolutely right. Crown Princess Letizia is not better or worse than any other of European Queens and Crown Princesses except for the other countries has much better economic situation.
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  #494  
Old 04-24-2014, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I don't think that Letizia is an intellectual leightweight and she did have a promising career ahead of her, but marrying into a royal family is something else. While most female newsreaders will be exchanged when they get older because of fading looks, marrying a prince and a future as queen will put yourself and your assets on a global map for the rest of your life and guarantee global attention, something that seemed certainly appealing to Letizia.

So in terms of social climing, any woman marrying into a royal family who is not royal herself, eg as Sofia, Letizia is as much 'trepa' as other princesses, imo.
I find your post denigrating and offensive. At a time when women journalists are fighting for the same rights to be anchor news at any age (as their counterparts in men) this paragraph say it is all....

<<most female newsreaders will be exchanged when they get older because of fading looks, marrying a prince and a future as queen will put yourself and your assets on a global map >>>

WOW! You don't think much of females huh? Whatever your issue,

1. Letizia was 29 y.o. (extremely young as a news anchor)
2. She was at the top of her career.
3. Last thing she was thinking at 29 was her fading looks.

Most incredible is that you are saying she married for "status". How much you know about her family background besides reading gossip?

Are you familiar with Menchu Alvarez del Valle, Letizia's 82 y.o grandmother and the recipient of Spain's National Radio Award last year?

How much do you know about Letizia's mother being a complutense university student in Madrid at 60+?

I honestly don't get why some people are so keen put down Letizia,, Leonor and Sofia. What on earth have they done to create this level of animosity?
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  #495  
Old 04-24-2014, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I didn't mean different sects within Christianity would be a problem in Spain, i meant that marriage for Catholics is soluble only by death or annulment [neither of whch applied to the princess' first marriage].
While I´m usually quite critical towards the Catholic Church, I always get surprised about how uninformed people usually is I keep on hearing this argument over and over from non-Catholic people and is absolutely wrong.

To get the facts right: CATHOLIC MARRIAGE (understood as the one celebrated by a priest on a church, I think everybody can see that point) is soluble only by death or annulment. That rule doesn´t apply to civil marriage, because for the Catholic Church, civil marriage just ISN´T a true marriage.

Letizia´s relationship with her first husband was what the old-fashioned catholics call "living in sin", but never a marriage according to the Catholic Church Law.

So, for a Catholic, Letizia was never married before her wedding at the Almudena.

PD: As for the career issues, another thing that annoys me to no end.
I´m nobody to underestimate Mary´s or Kate´s proffessional career prior to their marriage. It´s obvious that they both have studied and worked hard before and after their marriage.

But only a blind can deny that Letizia´s proffessional achievements are a step ahead from theirs. Kate and Mary´s studies and jobs were like the average ones on my inner circle (and I repeat, there is nothing wrong with that), but Letizia´s weren´t. That´s it, and that is obvious for everybody whatever her most ardent haters will say.
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  #496  
Old 04-24-2014, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
There is no need to list Crown Princess Letizia's CV. Reporting from hot spots was her job and enhanced her resume. Nothing else. I do not see journalist as a very important profession. The western mass media is marginally better than the non-western one.
I agree with you. Letizia was neither an analytical writer nor war correspondent or did some extraordinary work.

Yes, she pursued higher education and has good manners, but nothing extraordinary, except for her good looks.

Of course, she was not in the situation of Norwegian CP Mette-Marit, who had to continue her studies.

By the way, I do not criticize Letizia and generally like how she copes with the role of princess at official events.
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  #497  
Old 04-24-2014, 10:42 AM
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You are absolutely right. Crown Princess Letizia is not better or worse than any other of European Queens and Crown Princesses except for the other countries has much better economic situation.
Maybe princesses in rich countries love when journalists NEVER ask questions about luxury tax payers paid holidays.

Journos shouldn't be soooooooo crass, darl.
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  #498  
Old 04-24-2014, 10:48 AM
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<<<<Of course, she was not in the situation of Norwegian CP Mette-Marit, who had to continue her studies.>>>>

Huh? You kidding?
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  #499  
Old 04-24-2014, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
While I´m usually quite critical towards the Catholic Church, I always get surprised about how uninformed people usually is I keep on hearing this argument over and over from non-Catholic people and is absolutely wrong.

To get the facts right: CATHOLIC MARRIAGE (understood as the one celebrated by a priest on a church, I think everybody can see that point) is soluble only by death or annulment. That rule doesn´t apply to civil marriage, because for the Catholic Church, civil marriage just ISN´T a true marriage.

Letizia´s relationship with her first husband was what the old-fashioned catholics call "living in sin", but never a marriage according to the Catholic Church Law.

So, for a Catholic, Letizia was never married before her wedding at the Almudena.

PD: As for the career issues, another thing that annoys me to no end.
I´m nobody to underestimate Mary´s or Kate´s proffessional career prior to their marriage. It´s obvious that they both have studied and worked hard before and after their marriage.

But only a blind can deny that Letizia´s proffessional achievements are a step ahead from theirs. Kate and Mary´s studies and jobs were like the average ones on my inner circle (and I repeat, there is nothing wrong with that), but Letizia´s weren´t. That´s it, and that is obvious for everybody whatever her most ardent haters will say.

Annie, this has been explained a millions time before. Some people prefer not to get it, or prefer forgetting it the moment they read it.

It does my head in that some people still think a catholic marriage may only be dissolved by the "inquisition"
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:56 AM
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The standards for royal marriages are very low nowadays. Both Spain and Norway followed the low standard trend, I guess.
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