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  #121  
Old 06-12-2014, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by greentealatte View Post
It's bizarre to me to have a monarchy without having a proper ascension ceremony. A coronation ceremony would help re-connect Spain with its former Spanish colonies, remnants of the Spanish monarchy are the last vestiges of the Spanish Empire in the former colonies.

Its possible to have royal ceremonies steeped in religious tradition while having a secular constitution, but its very complicated. The Spanish constitution will have to make provisions for the Spanish Royal Household exempting it from laws that restrict it from conducting royal ceremonies (it can be reasoned as part of preserving and protecting heritage). But I don't think its feasible with Spain given its history and current situation, but maybe in the future.

There are ways to get around the whole issue of secularism and tradition but Spain will require a stable government and economy before it can happen.
Spanish Monarchs are not crowned and have historically always been proclaimed before the Cortes .The last monarchs to be crowned was Juan I of Castile back in 1379, Ferdinand I of Aragon in 1414 and Eleanor I of Navarre in 1479.
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  #122  
Old 06-13-2014, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Spanish Monarchs are not crowned and have historically always been proclaimed before the Cortes .The last monarchs to be crowned was Juan I of Castile back in 1379, Ferdinand I of Aragon in 1414 and Eleanor I of Navarre in 1479.

Adding to that these coronations took place before there even was a Spanish state
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  #123  
Old 06-13-2014, 08:08 AM
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Adding to that these coronations took place before there even was a Spanish state
Yes that is correct,and since the unifaction the Kingdom of Spain has never had any coronation ceremonies.
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  #124  
Old 06-13-2014, 08:38 AM
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Adding to that these coronations took place before there even was a Spanish state
Agreed. What's your point then?
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  #125  
Old 06-13-2014, 12:27 PM
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As per below,neither the King or Infanta Cristina will be attending the Proclamation Ceremony ,Queen Sofia and the Infantas Elena,Pilar and Margarita may be present.

Ni el Rey ni la infanta Cristina asistir?n a la proclamaci?n de Felipe VI
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  #126  
Old 06-13-2014, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by greentealatte View Post
It's bizarre to me to have a monarchy without having a proper ascension ceremony. A coronation ceremony would help re-connect Spain with its former Spanish colonies, remnants of the Spanish monarchy are the last vestiges of the Spanish Empire in the former colonies.

Its possible to have royal ceremonies steeped in religious tradition while having a secular constitution, but its very complicated. The Spanish constitution will have to make provisions for the Spanish Royal Household exempting it from laws that restrict it from conducting royal ceremonies (it can be reasoned as part of preserving and protecting heritage). But I don't think its feasible with Spain given its history and current situation, but maybe in the future.

There are ways to get around the whole issue of secularism and tradition but Spain will require a stable government and economy before it can happen.

The topic is controversial, but I personally think that the traditional coronation ceremonies used in the past in France or Russia and still in use today in the UK look old-fashioned and inappropriate for a modern European country. I wouldn't recommend keeping (or reinstating) it unless there is a strong argument (based on historical continuity) to do so, which is not the case in Spain.

The Dutch inauguration ceremony is the model I personally like the most. It is sufficiently formal/solemn, yet "modern" at the same time. The Belgian and Spanish proclamations on the other hand are too "ordinary" in my humble opinion, resembling the inauguration of the president of a republic, rather than a monarch.

On the other hand, a Thanksgiving mass/service to mark the accession has nothing to do, in my opinion, with the nature of the inauguration ceremony since the King is not crowned or annointed in the church. As the name says, it is just a religious service to mark an important national occasion. If countries can have such services in royal weddings or funerals, or in remembrance days, I don't see why a mass could not be held a week or so after the King is proclaimed in the Cortes.
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  #127  
Old 06-13-2014, 01:59 PM
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As per below,neither the King or Infanta Cristina will be attending the Proclamation Ceremony ,Queen Sofia and the Infantas Elena,Pilar and Margarita may be present.

Ni el Rey ni la infanta Cristina asistir?n a la proclamaci?n de Felipe VI
It is very strange that Juan Carlos won't attend! Of course I didn't expect Cristina.
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  #128  
Old 06-13-2014, 03:17 PM
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Maybe there will be a gala reception and dinner held in the King & Queen's honor later in the year where they will invite the foreign royals.
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  #129  
Old 06-13-2014, 03:38 PM
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Maybe there will be a gala reception and dinner held in the King & Queen's honor later in the year where they will invite the foreign royals.
It would be nice but I can't see that happening with the economic climate in Spain and the cost of such an event.
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  #130  
Old 06-13-2014, 03:47 PM
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It is very strange that Juan Carlos won't attend! Of course I didn't expect Cristina.
To me its a surprise Juan Carlos won't attend (especially if Sofia does) but not strange, he will be the old, former King and will likely want to ensure Felipe is center of attention.
I'll be shocked beyond belief if Cristina attends - I hope she keeps (or is kept) away from the whole thing!!
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  #131  
Old 06-13-2014, 06:08 PM
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So, is there going to be a public holiday for the inauguration? I know it has economic consequences, but it's amazing how well a day off work goes down and it might be a nice boost for the monarchy and the Spanish government.
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  #132  
Old 06-13-2014, 07:10 PM
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So wishing PF and PL the very best, and am looking forward to them being the new King and Queen. Just leave JC and his daughter, C, in the background and forgotten about. Time to move upward and forward for these two who are the best there is for Spain.
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  #133  
Old 06-13-2014, 07:32 PM
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So wishing PF and PL the very best, and am looking forward to them being the new King and Queen. Just leave JC and his daughter, C, in the background and forgotten about. Time to move upward and forward for these two who are the best there is for Spain.
I don't think The King who gave democracy back to Spain should be forgotten in the background. Yes, he hunted elephants, but his role in the history of his country is much more important than a ill-timed hunting trip and a corruption scandal caused by his son-in-law. In fact, this corruption story has more than one year now, and they are still unable to prove Infanta Cristina guilt.


I wish all the best for the new King and Queen, but King Juan Carlos must be honored for the great things His Majesty has done for Spain. Sometimes, people can a have a terribly short memory, something that can lead to ingratitude.
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  #134  
Old 06-13-2014, 07:38 PM
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Unfortunately good deeds are forgotten quickly, and bad deeds stay in the memory for a very long time :(
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  #135  
Old 06-13-2014, 08:31 PM
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Felipe VI, the first "lay and republican" king ?

Felipe VI, primer rey laico-republicano de la Cristiandad - El Manifiesto
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  #136  
Old 06-14-2014, 06:42 AM
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Thursday 19 will not be a national holiday, that date was chosen because it is a holiday in the region of Madrid.
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  #137  
Old 06-14-2014, 08:30 AM
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yes, it was a surprise to me to learn that KJC is not attending the enthronement, to me both him and sofia should be there.
cristina and iñaki will definitely be kept well away from all this, it is convenient they live outside of spain! (maybe their move to switzerland was after the king knew he was going to abdicate, and hence easier for the court to keep them apart from the whole thing...)

an article on what letizia may wear. they debate on whether she will wear a long dress or a short dress, and what it may look like. vermeulen, royal couturier to the benelux families, suggests red may be the colour she chooses (a very spanish colour and one letizia wears well). they also say the female ministers and first lady will wear short dresses, so letizia may do so too to keep up with the protocol, but they suggest it is highly likely she will choose a long dress as her role is more prominent and enthronements don't happen everyday! finally, they mention that during the netherlands and belgium enthonements, maxima and mathilde chose what they wanted: maxima wanted to use a fabric given to her by queen beatrix, and mathilde wanted a certain cut for her dress that she knew would suit her...

LOC: As? imagina el 'visterreinas' a Do?a Letizia en la proclamaci?n | EL MUNDO
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  #138  
Old 06-14-2014, 08:45 AM
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I'd imagine that King Juan Carlos is not attending as the focus will be on the new King,Felipe VI.
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  #139  
Old 06-14-2014, 09:07 AM
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In the Netherlands Queen Wilhelmina saw her abdication as her own death. There was no place for her at the Investiture: she was dead, according her own rigid interpretation of the Constitution. Her daughter, the new Queen Juliana, had to use all ressure on her mother to attend her Investiture. Queen Wilhelmina ultimately gave in to her daughter, but as soon as the Investiture ceremony was over, the then Princess Wilhelmina ordered one of the royal limousines to leave the royal premises and bring her into anonymity after 58 years of kingship.
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  #140  
Old 06-14-2014, 12:59 PM
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In the Netherlands Queen Wilhelmina saw her abdication as her own death. There was no place for her at the Investiture: she was dead, according her own rigid interpretation of the Constitution. Her daughter, the new Queen Juliana, had to use all ressure on her mother to attend her Investiture. Queen Wilhelmina ultimately gave in to her daughter, but as soon as the Investiture ceremony was over, the then Princess Wilhelmina ordered one of the royal limousines to leave the royal premises and bring her into anonymity after 58 years of kingship.
That is a shame that Wihelmina felt that way. The Dutch citizens certainly didn't and loved her until she died. The state of retirement, even to a large supervisor in industry always leaves a void when they finally leave their working life. One no longer has the power and respect of being over many employees. Or of people actually valuing and wanting their opinion. Believe me, it is quite a brutal change at some time. But to view as own death. Quite extreme. Shame
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