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  #241  
Old 10-21-2013, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by casualfan View Post
It's so sad and embarrassing that people read so much into these things. First of all, Asa previous poster has stated, the title of 'Reyes católicos' does not exactly hold the monarch to the same parochial ideas as in generations past, given that Spain, as the rest of the world, has seen a sharp decline in the number of people that really hold true to catholic ideas and practices (the LA Times had an article in March that stated that only 1 in 5 Spanish Catholics reported going to church once a week).

Secondly, I think there are a lot of people who think the Infantas are wooden, remote or paralyzed. Didn't Leonor talk to photographers as she was leaving her grandfather's hospital after his last surgery? They smile, they hold hands with their parents, etc.
I do not understand people disliking Letizia. I am fond of her. But I am not from Spain :)
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  #242  
Old 10-22-2013, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
Duke, you always repeat the same and I say the same.

Today the monarchy in Spain is King Juan Carlos, and in a way he wanted to keep the institution anchored in the past because interest to maintain his privileges. His big mistake was not to see that society evolved and demanded other things, and so now there are many problems.

But Prince Felipe will have to answer to another Spain and other Spanish, they will not accept what is allowed to his father. And that's where Princess Letizia has her role.

Unfortunately seems King Juan Carlos has never been willing to change things if he has not been forced by pressure. And by not allowing progressive changes only compounded the future.

There is something very ironic, conservatives, old monarchists, the gossip press ... require Letizia being more royal than royal... what in Letizia is vulgar and plebeian ... in members of the Royal Family demonstrates simplicity and proximity. Members of the Royal Family can do many things without receiving any criticism, but if Letizia did the same criticism would be brutal. Many times the arguments are totally schizophrenic.
Very well said! Could not agree more.
BYe Bine
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  #243  
Old 10-22-2013, 01:17 AM
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That statement that 'Letizia explains all' is actually correct, I would even go so far as to say she has been her own worst enemy. IMO the only time that Letizia looked bad was when she was in public with the SRF. Like it or not, people see things and, right or wrong, draw their own conclusions. I remember quite some time ago seeing Letizia standing on the podium beside her husband. He was in full dress uniform reviewing the troops, she was wearing Capri pants and flats looking for all the world like she had just stopped by on the way to the beach!

Whether she meant it or not it came across as showing utter contempt for the Military. And so another strike against her. Incidentally, recently I saw a photo of the same type of event and she looked absolutely perfect. Unfortunately I don't think it changed many opinion that were already set in concrete.
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  #244  
Old 10-22-2013, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Andolini View Post
I do not understand people disliking Letizia. I am fond of her. But I am not from Spain :)


We should revisit old threads of summer holidays . Aim is always the same (to beat up Letizia in any way possible), the excuses are different.

Then she use to spend 2 weeks or so there. Then the stick to beat her with was always "she does not get along with Cristina ... it is all her fault... she is going to bring the monarchy down ....she is ill-suited to make friends with high society"! If that failed, then it was JC did not like her and never talks to her, irrespective of the evidence. If that failed then it was Elena that had issues with her. If that also failed, then she was bad mother, using her baby daughters to get press attention etc...etc. Yet nary a word about how Cristina and Inaki were the ones who had their kids front and center and always on the yatch. They were first to arrive, last to leave and used royal privileges to max

How the whole Cristina affair was laid at her door, day in day out, event after event was exasperating. Now that the truth has come out about Cristina and her husband (irrespective of whether she gets legally indicted or not), there is nary a self-reflection. Agenda is lets find something else because there will always be something else.

I am gobsmacked at how the summer crisis was invented and fanned. Now that F&L marriage appears to be ok, lets put it out that she hates her country and king because she did not drink.

While that story still has some legs, lets start a new one about her shielding her daughters too much.

And as with everything else, let the facts not get in the way of good old Letizia hate.
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  #245  
Old 10-22-2013, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by casualfan View Post
She's referring to David Rocasolano's book about his cousin, Letizia.
The less said about that awful man and his 'book' the better
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  #246  
Old 10-22-2013, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andolini View Post
I do not understand people disliking Letizia. I am fond of her. But I am not from Spain :)

So, if you are not Spanish, you can not understand the matter.
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  #247  
Old 10-22-2013, 09:29 AM
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After reading all your points of view, it is very clear for me that nowadays nobody can understand the real meaning of a Monarchy. If a prince gets married to a woman like Letizia, the monarchy will disappear sooner or later. If you all want to have princesses coming "from the other side", I say: not me.

The meaning of being part of a royal family is very deep, and if a person doesnt want to accept it like Letizia, it is better dont get married to a prince.

If she wants to be an anonimous person, and she wants her daughters are "normal girls", dont get married to become a member of a Royal Family.

The cases of other princesses in Europe are very different, especially the case of Máxima, who is one of the best princesses and now queen of nowadays, because she has understood very well what is her role in all senses.
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  #248  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:19 AM
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@ Noor Mariam:It is funny that you expect CP Letizia to be perfect and flawless,but in the Middle East a lot of rulers are living a lifestyle that is the complete opposite of what The Holy Quran is teaching and the majority of people seems to find no offense in that...
Many of the royal spouses and children are not even publicly known,the royals have secret wives, children who are born to unknown "wives" and most of this is kept completely out of the public eye, something which everyone seems to find acceptable and normal,yet at the same time you expect European royals to present their children to the press 24/7...
You complain about Letizia´s lack of religious feelings,clothing and attitude while in your country a man gets jailed simply because he has written a poem about the Tunisian revolution which your glorious rulers found to be offensive because it may lead people to ask for more freedom of speech and political change.
Compared to the case of Mohamed Rashid al-Ajami,your accusations of CP Letizia sound irrelevant and trivial because none of her choices have violated human rights or taken away people´s freedom.
CP Letizia is certainly not flawless,so is nobody else,but she is definitely trying to do her best to fulfill her role and be a good wife and mother!
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  #249  
Old 10-22-2013, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
@ Noor Mariam:It is funny that you expect CP Letizia to be perfect and flawless,but in the Middle East a lot of rulers are living a lifestyle that is the complete opposite of what The Holy Quran is teaching and the majority of people seems to find no offense in that...
Many of the royal spouses and children are not even publicly known,the royals have secret wives, children who are born to unknown "wives" and most of this is kept completely out of the public eye, something which everyone seems to find acceptable and normal,yet at the same time you expect European royals to present their children to the press 24/7...
You complain about Letizia´s lack of religious feelings,clothing and attitude while in your country a man gets jailed simply because he has written a poem about the Tunisian revolution which your glorious rulers found to be offensive because it may lead people to ask for more freedom of speech and political change.
Compared to the case of Mohamed Rashid al-Ajami,your accusations of CP Letizia sound irrelevant and trivial because none of her choices have violated human rights or taken away people´s freedom.
CP Letizia is certainly not flawless,so is nobody else,but she is definitely trying to do her best to fulfill her role and be a good wife and mother!

Sorry, I dont understand why you are telling me about Middle East issues, I am European and I am Spanish and I am devoted Christian Catholic, so I have a very good idea about the role of Letizia and about European monarchy.
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  #250  
Old 10-22-2013, 12:31 PM
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A) Maxima has the support of the DRF and I also remember what a fuss they made about a paparazzi pic, so b) the press doesn´t dares to rip her apart c) she has her own staff and is not dependent on her hubby. So, hm, maybe that´s why she is considered successful?? Because she was never a silent mouse either or can fake it very good, don´t know.
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  #251  
Old 10-22-2013, 01:29 PM
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Where posters are from is irrelevant all points of view are welcome once they remain within the forum guidelines.
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  #252  
Old 10-22-2013, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fürstin Taxis View Post
A) Maxima has the support of the DRF and I also remember what a fuss they made about a paparazzi pic, so b) the press doesn´t dares to rip her apart c) she has her own staff and is not dependent on her hubby. So, hm, maybe that´s why she is considered successful?? Because she was never a silent mouse either or can fake it very good, don´t know.
Exactly. Maxima and JC, Zarzuela wouldn't not be big enough to hold the two enormous egos. WA and Maxima have imposed a press code on the press to protect their private life that would never work in Spain. I really wish Letizia can have the freedom of Maxima traveling all over the world all the time, doing whatever she wants to do, let Felipe stay home, take care of the girls, and see how a certain sector of sexist Spanish press or sexist old monarchists have to say.
Maxima and Letizia were two smart career women, the essential difference is the country, the press, the in-law (Beatrice vs. JC) .
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  #253  
Old 10-22-2013, 03:03 PM
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Exactly. Maxima and JC, Zarzuela wouldn't not be big enough to hold the two enormous egos. WA and Maxima has imposed a press code on the press to protect their private life that wouldn't never work in Spain. I really wish Letizia can have the freedom of Maxima traveling all over the world all the time, doing whatever she wants to do, let Felipe stay home, take care of the girls, and see how a certain sector of sexist Spanish press or sexist old monarchists have to say.
Maxima and Letizia were two smart career women, the essential difference is the country, the press, the in-law (Beatrice vs. JC) .
I'd certainly add Maxima's personality, she's absolutely authentic and can win people over in a second by her appearance, very unique. I dont think that there was ever such a spark between Letizia and the spanish public.
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  #254  
Old 10-22-2013, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I'd certainly add Maxima's personality, she's absolutely authentic and can win people over in a second by her appearance, very unique. I dont think that there was ever such a spark between Letizia and the spanish public.
It really depends if you like Maxima's messy and often over the top appearance or not. It probably suits the Dutch, but it doesn't mean it would work the same in another country. If you look at the crowd who went out to Letizia, there was certainly a spark. But Spain is a diverse country, a certain sector of population who don't like Letizia, would never accept her as the Princess of Asturias. At the end of day, the popularity of a consort comes and goes with the position (Princess Alexandra is the best proof), maybe except for Diana due to her global image, as long as Felipe stays on the top of the game.
No matter what people said of Letizia, she has made key contributions on Felipe's career. First made him fully aware of the business scandal involved Cristina and Inaki, thus he was neither a complicit (like his father) or a clueless like Mom and sister Elena. Also from the very beginning, they had worked together to improve Felipe's speeches. His excellent speech in Argentina is the reflect of years of work on his public speaking skill.
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  #255  
Old 10-22-2013, 03:29 PM
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What Maxima did incredibly well (from a dutch point of view) was when, in the discussion about her father's past, Willem-Alexander tried to defend his father in law with some unfortunate chosen reasons, it was Maxima who said in her first tv interview that WA had been 'a little bit stupid'....
That worked very well for her reception in the dutch public

I don't know if P.Letizia ever had such a moment, and whether the spanish people would respond similar to that...
Did Letizia actually ever speak out herself or is she just 'talked about'...?
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  #256  
Old 10-22-2013, 03:35 PM
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The only time Letizia dared to cut Felipe was at their engagement interview and she was criticized for that for years. In fact, she still is. I can't begin the imagine the field day Spanish press would have, if Letizia were to "pull a Maxima".
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  #257  
Old 10-22-2013, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
What Maxima did incredibly well (from a dutch point of view) was when, in the discussion about her father's past, Willem-Alexander tried to defend his father in law with some unfortunate chosen reasons, it was Maxima who said in her first tv interview that WA had been 'a little bit stupid'....
That worked very well for her reception in the dutch public

I don't know if P.Letizia ever had such a moment, and whether the spanish people would respond similar to that...
Did Letizia actually ever speak out herself or is she just 'talked about'...?
That's why I said the countries are different. If Letizia called her husband 'a little bit stupid' no matter how stupid things he did, she would have been seen breaking the protocol, not showing any respect for her higher ranked husband in public.
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  #258  
Old 10-22-2013, 03:46 PM
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What i maybe have to add that in that Maxima/WA situation, the general opinion of the dutch people before that interview was that what WA had said was not smart and that the royals were not really seeing the problem...
When Maxima said the legendary 'he was a bit stupid' phrase she actually said what a lot of people had been thinking themselves and in one go showing that the royals *did* know there were issues with father's past;and did face up to it

But i can understand quite well that it would possibly not have worked in other situations and other countries

I'm not very familiar with the spanish situation, but i do like Letizia and Felipe together (and apart) and think it's a real shame that she (and him because of it) are having such a hard time with the press
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  #259  
Old 10-22-2013, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
What Maxima did incredibly well (from a dutch point of view) was when, in the discussion about her father's past, Willem-Alexander tried to defend his father in law with some unfortunate chosen reasons, it was Maxima who said in her first tv interview that WA had been 'a little bit stupid'....
That worked very well for her reception in the dutch public
Een beetje dom has become a famous expression in the Netherlands related to Maxima, I've seen it on T-Shirts and on mobile ringtones. In Spain there is a similar example with the King's ¿Por qué no te callas? towards Hugo Chavez who kept interrupting the president's speech.
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  #260  
Old 10-22-2013, 04:34 PM
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The difference is that if in Spain Juan Carlos says (or he said it, now things have changed), the king was natural, spontaneous, sympathetic, "Borbon" ... if Letizia say it is a scandal of incredible dimensions.

Infanta Elena can go to Mango, supermarket, dress with a spanish flag or go to the concert last hit on TV ... and they say she is close to people and down to earth ... if Letizia does it, she does not have taste, a commoner who does not know the rules of royalty.

For example, they do not accept that Letizia treat Felipe as her husband, and talk to him as a wife to her husband speak, they want her to save him reverence as a Prince.

The press and especially gossip press is often very elitist... they do not accept someone as they is now the princess.

And no Duke, if Prince Felipe had chosen a noble or royal woman, the case would be reversed ... and then they accuse her of being detached from reality and be a snob.

I think one of the problems is that King Juan Carlos has never treated the "in law" as family members with institutional importance. Probably if the king had publicly supported them more, they would not have been so easy victims for the press.
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