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  #141  
Old 11-18-2007, 07:44 AM
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I am a huge fan of Letizia, she is a highly intelligent, accomplished woman in her own right and din't just get her fame from who she married like some other royal ladies. As a journalist, I am sure she has an excellent take on current affairs/history and other things and is a real asset to Spain. I am sure that she is doing her bit behind the scenes at all the galas/meetings etc and it is well known that behind every powerful man stands a woman so she is probably forging links amongst the wives and other ladies in China, women who will have the ear of other powerful men. this is diplomacy just not visible so I don't think anybody here is saying Letizia is irrelevent or frivolous as a person and i don't think talking about her outfits is a bad thing, it is part of the fun. For those people who don't want to talk about Princess Letizia's clothing then they they don't have to respond but can post comments about other things.

Princess Letizia is dignified and regal and is not pushy or attention grabbing like some other royal families. I like that her husband is so openly protective of her and that she shines in her own way, not neccessarily the celebrity way everyone expects. She seems to understand that she married into a grand old family and that dignity is crucial. Just because she doesn't push herself forwards does not mean she is doing nothing. Perhaps that her husband takes the lead is seen as a bad thing by some people but usually this is the way in the european royal houses, the one who is born of royal blood always takes precedence over the one who married in, for example Queen Elizabeth of Britain and the Duke of Edinburgh.

Let's all just talk about the things we like to talk about, if someone says something that isn't to taste, then ignore it and add your own comments to open up discussion
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  #142  
Old 11-18-2007, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
Please Carlota, when " there is substance " many people insist on speaking only about the clothes. Example any act in solitary and with speeches of the Princess. Precisely many of that have criticized that the Princess does not have acts in solitarily, are those who now when she does them devote themselves to criticize her clothes without giving the minimal attention to the content of these acts. Always looking for excuses.

The economy is bored, and the activities have not been not enterteining, not nice, not tender ... but in the economic aspect it has been an important trip, and in the politician also (the Princes have met in two visits the maximum representatives of the Chinese State). But it is the work of the Princes, to travel there, to be with the businessmen, to facilitate the signature of agreements ... and to eat ham. This trip had a function and a concrete aim, the support to the economy and the Spanish culture in China, and it is what they have done.

Totally right, it's obviously that is happening with the threads regarding the Princes when they are together or for the Prince's thread.

Upon seven pages about this trip we have at least the half which is giving the respective taste of anybody about the wardrobe of the Princess. It's very interesting to know that what's his/her name like or don't like dress, tight, shoes, bag, hairdo of Letizia, but may be it's a little short to have an interssant exchange on for example the behaviour as economical diplomate of the Prince.

Two things: or this kind of trip have any interest for a discussion, either the single thing which is interesting is how the Princess is dressed?

This topic is so truth, and I agree totally with Lula, during a while many were the people who want that the Princess have her own agenda. As now she has, we could thing that the discussion could turn over her duties and not on the dress she is wearing. But few of the people who want that Letizia has her own agenda are speaking about her job. Too bad, because it's mean that tha fact of the Letizia's rising as a active agent of the Spain Royal Familly is whithout any consequences for the interest of the discussion, yes too bad and very curious.
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  #143  
Old 11-18-2007, 07:57 AM
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Yamamah, you are right too. The problem isen't to forbid discussion about the wardrobe of the Princess of Asturias because as you say it's the part of fun. The problem is to have quite a complete thread about an economical and cultural trip only upon how is dressed the Princess of Asturias. That's all.

You are right too when you say if we dont li this kind of discussion don't answered! Look at this thread and watch who make the discussion to see that your advice is yet followed!
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  #144  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:05 AM
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Thanks you Adelaide Like I said, I am almost 100% sure that Princess Letizia is having discussions of her own with the ladies/businesswomen/politicians just perhaps it is not being covered by the press and being a fotmer journalist means she will have a good grasp of all the facts she needs to put her point across and encourage mutual trade and investment. These ladies that Ltizia is mixing with are also married to very impotant men and will have their own influence, so Letizia can perhaps raise in private things that may not be able to be raised publicly. This is what diplomacy is - oiling the wheels.
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  #145  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:10 AM
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I agree with you yamamah!

A journalist specializing in royalty once said that although Letizia go to events together with her husband only as a companion, she is equally informed about this event that the prince, just like her husband, and that she also helped to the prince to write some speeches. The difference is simply that he read the speech and she does not read it.
I see she as a very intelligent woman who also has demonstrated a desire to "know" and to be informed about everything as good journalist that she was.
So although people do not see it and think that she is a statue stuck to her husband, she works and is interested in her work like the prince.
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  #146  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:23 AM
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Exactly Camarina! I believe that they were probably given the exact same briefing and information before this trip and probably at the same time.
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  #147  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
The economy is bored, and the activities have not been not enterteining, not nice, not tender ... but in the economic aspect it has been an important trip, and in the politician also (the Princes have met in two visits the maximum representatives of the Chinese State). But it is the work of the Princes, to travel there, to be with the businessmen, to facilitate the signature of agreements ... and to eat ham. This trip had a function and a concrete aim, the support to the economy and the Spanish culture in China, and it is what they have done.
I do agree with you that this trip to China was very important to support the economy of Spain in China, well, we'd rather say, to promote Spain export to China. It was an important promotional tour, but not that interesting IMO, as all the Europeans countries send very often to Asia their representatives, royals or politicians, businessman, to promote export or for joint ventures.
Unfortunately, a few European countries, such as Spain, Italy realized very late how important is the Asiatic market.
So, nowdays those promotional tours to Asia are a sort of routine for most of the European Countries. Probably, that is also one of the reasons why the press didn't cover the event that much.
So, IMO you shouldn't be that surprised if many of the posters didn't understand the importance of this tour.
I personally, I am much more impressed when I saw Felipe and Letizia smiling and being extremely nice to the disabled people, as they did a few weeks ago.
As far as it regards comments on clothes, well, this happens in all the other threads and nobody complains, not even the thread moderators.
I think that, as we haven't met them personally, it is normal that we try to understand their personality from the way they dress and move.
Obviously we all have different tastes and different opinions about clothes!!
Though a few posters never accept any negative comment on Letizia's outfits.
Last but not least, I do believe that, though Letizia often doesn't say a word on public events, she is obviously well informed and I would be surprised if I knew that she doesn't help in writing all Felipe's speeches. She was a good journalist, so I am sure she still like to be well informed and she is curious about what happens all over the world, like all good jounalists.
I am sure that it is not her fault if she has only few solo events in her agenda. She can always manage greatly when Felipe is not there.
So we all should wonder why we seldom see her alone.
We should ask to the Zarzuela!
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  #148  
Old 11-18-2007, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by yamamah View Post
Thanks you Adelaide Like I said, I am almost 100% sure that Princess Letizia is having discussions of her own with the ladies/businesswomen/politicians just perhaps it is not being covered by the press and being a fotmer journalist means she will have a good grasp of all the facts she needs to put her point across and encourage mutual trade and investment. These ladies that Ltizia is mixing with are also married to very impotant men and will have their own influence, so Letizia can perhaps raise in private things that may not be able to be raised publicly. This is what diplomacy is - oiling the wheels.
I totally agree with you. She is probably the most well-informed among the crown princesses. With her traning and background, I am sure she gives her opinions and advice behind the scenes. However, she knows her place is supporting her husband and not upstaging him. In the long run, this is the best situation for any royal family, not only for Spain.
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  #149  
Old 11-18-2007, 01:10 PM
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Giov the problem is not to talk about the clothes of Princess, or some like it more or less. The problem is that this is the forum of activities, and lately in the forums of activities there are people who focus the conversation on clothing, where it is, therefore, specific forums. One thing is to make a comment, and another to focus the conversation on a topic that is not that of the forum.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...2-a-13040.html
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...wear-2397.html

The journalists who habitually follow the Princes, the persons who meet them, the businessmen who accompany them, have very clear which is the work of the Princes, it informed well that are and the interest that they have for everything. And it can be read in many news on their activities. Of the Princess always they distinguish her interest to ask many things, and her good memory to remember information and names.
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  #150  
Old 11-18-2007, 01:36 PM
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Prince Felipe and Jia Quinglin assure that the relations between Spain and China pass for the better moment

Año de España en China :: Noticias

Spain and China strengthen commercial links in Hispanic - Chinese Forum of Investments and Managerial Cooperation

Año de España en China :: Noticias
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  #151  
Old 11-18-2007, 01:37 PM
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I don't give anyone a pass based on their employment. Many people get their jobs, be it journalist or VP, based on connections. It does not mean they are more intelligent or have a better grasp of disciplines, it is more likely they knew how to play the game to get the job. The jury is still out for me on who is the best and brightest of the CPs, I think they all bring a uniqueness to the table and the majority are not ignorant. JMO
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  #152  
Old 11-18-2007, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by yamamah View Post
Thanks you Adelaide Like I said, I am almost 100% sure that Princess Letizia is having discussions of her own with the ladies/businesswomen/politicians just perhaps it is not being covered by the press and being a fotmer journalist means she will have a good grasp of all the facts she needs to put her point across and encourage mutual trade and investment. These ladies that Ltizia is mixing with are also married to very impotant men and will have their own influence, so Letizia can perhaps raise in private things that may not be able to be raised publicly. This is what diplomacy is - oiling the wheels.
Yamamah, welcome to join the forum. I like Felipe and Letizia too. While I agree with you most of what you said, I have to disagree with you in this regards:

In China, politicians' wives are seldome present in this kind of occasions. They generally have much lower profile than politicians' wives in other countries. So I wouldn't be surprised if Letizia didn't meet any of them. That's not Letizia's issue. It's Chinese government's issue. These wives may not be socially or politically adept at receiving international guests. Plus, after Jiang Ching, the Communist government is probably very reluctant to have any wives taking the spotlight.

Second point is from a feminism point of view. Why should a crown princess only mingle with the wives of politicians? As we all know, men still dominate politics and economics around the world. So why couldn't a crown princess sit in power meetings with these political leaders and economic movers along side her husband? Why should a crown princess as capable, professional and knowledgable as Letizia go with the wives of politicians' wives to visit kindergartens or hospitals or sightsee? She might not speak a word at the power meetings but she could learn the issues and the diplomatic double talks. This may build her creditial for a bigger role later. I personally dislike the fact that royal women are always delegated to hospitals and kindergartens.
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  #153  
Old 11-18-2007, 02:10 PM
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I don't give anyone a pass based on their employment. Many people get their jobs, be it journalist or VP, based on connections. It does not mean they are more intelligent or have a better grasp of disciplines, it is more likely they knew how to play the game to get the job.
Letizia didn't just "get the job". She climbed to the highest level of her profession at the age of 31. You don't get there in a cutthroat profession such as television journalism by connections.
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  #154  
Old 11-18-2007, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Gaia View Post
I don't give anyone a pass based on their employment. Many people get their jobs, be it journalist or VP, based on connections. It does not mean they are more intelligent or have a better grasp of disciplines, it is more likely they knew how to play the game to get the job. The jury is still out for me on who is the best and brightest of the CPs, I think they all bring a uniqueness to the table and the majority are not ignorant. JMO
I don't think a journalist, espcially one who is a television journalist that is viewed by millions of people, could survive if she/he is incompetent. Also, the best and brightest are not necessarily the most well-informed.
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  #155  
Old 11-18-2007, 03:31 PM
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What language did they speak while on this trip?
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  #156  
Old 11-18-2007, 03:35 PM
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Wow, are you all seriously complaining about fashion talk and a lack of coverage here? And is the latter one lse-majest?? Honestly I went through this thread and there was no link to a speech by Felipe or to a decent English newspaper article on this trip. IMO there is hardly a basis for discussing anything else than the clothes they put on.
And about the press coverage: Cest ca! Journalism is a business too and Letizia sure knows this. Its just legitimate if newspapers, photo agencies etc. make up a coast-benefit analysis and decide not to send their folks to China because: China or Spain whats the difference if Felipe and Letizia are just sitting in grey clothes in front of some banners with Felipe occasionally delivering a speech? The walk through the forbidden city sure was a nice start to change this, but it seems this did not yet convince many agencies.
Just to bring up a recent example that might escaped your notice. In June Philippe and Mathilde went on an economic trip to China too, accompanied by 200 Belgian businessmen. They managed to include some nice pictures opportunities and they had lots of photographers and journalists (Chinese and Belgians) following them. And according to some posts here this strategy can now be labelled as frivolous and touristy element. I guess Philippe and Mathilde would laugh and remember all these receptions and galas (7 within 11 days) they attended to improve the Belgian image and the relationship with China. They will probably remember they had their breakfast scheduled at 5AM in order to get the flights to the next cities they are visiting and they would think of the many, many business meetings they attend. Posing for the photographers in front of some nice sights like the forbidden city in Shenyang actually was just a tiny part of their activities during this trip - but it made the difference for the photographers. And the same goes for Haakon and Mette-Marit during their business trips. This is how media is working these days and I see no reason to label it as touristy which sounds to me like implying they are doing unserious things and wasting time.

And concerning Letizias role during this trip: If I read things like “She is probably the most well-informed among the crown princesses “ Sorry, this does not convince me at all. You cannot proof it is so, because all we see is Letizia sitting with closed lips next to her hubby. And I certainly cannot proof other crown princesses, and I am thinking of Mette-Marit and Mathilde here, who do similar business trips are better prepared. But I think preparing the speeches they are giving in person takes time too, not to mention they are also well prepared for the things they visit with their husbands. And yes Mathilde did not accompany Philippe in China when he met political key players during daytime events. Poor her, according to some of you she now has no idea about political issues and diplomatic double talks. But as an UNAids representative she went to an AIDS project in Beijing, delivered a speech, talked to Aids-patients and planted a tree with them. A silly woman program in your eyes, but Im sure this gesture of appraisal meant a lot to highly discriminated HIV patients she met.

Dont get me wrong - even if I think Letizia could do a lot more than sitting next to her hubby Im respecting the Spanish way to perform these trips. They sure have their reasons for doing so and this deserves respect. BUT for some of you respect seems to be a one way road. Everything has to be done the F+L way, and if not its wrong. Believe me, there are many ways to organize these business trips and even your busy and serious Spanish power team can improve the one or the other thing – and the result probably would be more press coverage, tons of nice pictures and happy TRF members.
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  #157  
Old 11-18-2007, 04:20 PM
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Johann, if you want articles in Spanish I put you dozens, and all the speeches of the Prince in Spanish. Donna also has put the link to some news in Chinese.

Also I can remember you that the Princes of Asturias already were in China little more than one year ago, in a trip in which they met all the authorities of the country, and that the Kings of Spain were there this year.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...6-a-10187.html
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...7-a-13012.html

In my opinion, for my as citizen, I believe that the trips of the authorities are Kings, Princes or leaders must be limited, that they can do a gesture for the nice photography or the anecdote, but I do not understand the long trips where the half of the activities they are more tourist than political. And I do not understand it because they are trips paid with public money.

Every Royal House has its way of acting and its priorities, and I remember you that this one is the forum of the Princes of Asturias, not of the Belgians, not of the Norwegians...

For my most important of this trip, they are not the photos, among other things, because this year in Spain we are bored of seeing all the authorities of the country in China. The important thing is that there have been closed a few economic very important agreements for the Spanish businessmen. The important thing is that thousands of persons visit an exhibition of the Royal palace of Madrid in the Forbidden City, the important thing is that in Shangai there is a library Cervantes the first step to open an Institute Cervantes, the form that has Spain of spreading its culture and its language.

Another explanation. It does not matter for me if the Princess makes acts alone or with the Prince in this trip, if they can make the activities united why to do them separately?... Another explanation, if someone has detained to follow the activities of the Spanish Royal Family and specially of the Queen Sofa, will realize that in Spain the members of the Royal Family, do not operate as representatives of the United Nations for a thing or other one. The Queen does trips and visits projects always linked or to her Foundation and its projects or to the Spanish Cooperation.
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  #158  
Old 11-18-2007, 04:53 PM
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Johann, if you want articles in Spanish I put you dozens, and all the speeches of the Prince in Spanish. Donna also has put the link to some news in Chinese.
Yes, but actually the language here is English and probably the majority of TRF members here (count me in) are not Spanish speakers, so its not overly surprising to me that the discussion is limited to clothes talk.
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Also I can remember you that the Princes of Asturias already were in China little more than one year ago, in a trip in which they met all the authorities of the country, and that the Kings of Spain were there this year.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...6-a-10187.html
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...7-a-13012.html
I know, this was pointed out here already. But since the lack of coverage is such a big deal here: Im still convinced the trip would have gotten more coverage if the program would have been more "interesting" or if Letizia would have done solo activities in this case it would have been completely irrelevant if they have been in China already. Wrong or right - this is just the way the media business works.
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In my opinion, for my as citizen, I believe that the trips of the authorities are Kings, Princes or leaders must be limited, that they can do a gesture for the nice photography or the anecdote, but I do not understand the long trips where the half of the activities they are more tourist than political. And I do not understand it because they are trips paid with public money.
Can you bring up an example of this long and touristic trips?
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Every Royal House has its way of acting and its priorities, and I remember you that this one is the forum of the Princes of Asturias, not of the Belgians, not of the Norwegians...
Oh thanks for remembering me, believe me Im very well aware of this. But many posters here have no problem with pointing out that Letizia is so well-prepared compared to other woman in her position or that this trip is so serious compared to others. Doing so seems to be very welcome here, so I think Im entitled to compare too and provide examples as basis for a discussion.
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For my most important of this trip, they are not the photos, among other things, because this year in Spain we are bored of seeing all the authorities of the country in China. The important thing is that there have been closed a few economic very important agreements for the Spanish businessmen. The important thing is that thousands of persons visit an exhibition of the Royal palace of Madrid in the Forbidden City, the important thing is that in Shangai there is a library Cervantes the first step to open an Institute Cervantes, the form that has Spain of spreading its culture and its language.
Ah well, the same also goes for citizens of other monarchies I guess, this is not unique IMO. But nevertheless some nice pictures never harm. And I think the discussion here is a proof for this.
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Another explanation. It does not matter for me if the Princess makes acts alone or with the Prince in this trip, if they can make the activities united why to do them separately?... Another explanation, if someone has detained to follow the activities of the Spanish Royal Family and specially of the Queen Sofa, will realize that in Spain the members of the Royal Family, do not operate as representatives of the United Nations for a thing or other one. The Queen does trips and visits projects always linked or to her Foundation and its projects or to the Spanish Cooperation.
And? Did I imply Letizia has to take over a function at the UN? I think I pointed out I respect the team idea. What I dont understand is that many members here think the team idea is the one and only way to handle things - and graciously devalue the work of those couples who have another approach to these trips.
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  #159  
Old 11-18-2007, 05:07 PM
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Another explanation, if someone has detained to follow the activities of the Spanish Royal Family and specially of the Queen Sofa, will realize that in Spain the members of the Royal Family, do not operate as representatives of the United Nations for a thing or other one. The Queen does trips and visits projects always linked or to her Foundation and its projects or to the Spanish Cooperation.
Im not a specialist on the spanish royal family but Im pretty sure Infanta Cristina is a member of the family

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As Honorary President of the Spanish Committee of UNESCO, she has maintained her links with this international organisation and with several of its projects, especially educational ones, with the focus on activities to protect the natural and artistic heritage. In October 2001, she was appointed Goodwill Ambassador to the United Nations for the 2nd World Assembly on Ageing. She is also a member of the Dali Foundation Board of Trustees.
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Old 11-18-2007, 05:57 PM
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Larzen, my reference is to the international trips. The Infanta Cristina is a representative of the SPANISH Committee of UNESCO, and the Prince also has collaborated in the year of the Voluntary work, but none crosses the world as representatives or ambassadors of the United Nations. When they realize trips or visit projects of cooperation, are going as representatives of the Spanish State to visit projects of the Spanish Cooperation or of spanish NGO.

Johann, then the problem is not that there is no information, is that there is no information in the language of this forum. Like the problem is that it is difficult to have access to photos of good quality of the agency EFE, which is the public Spanish agency, and that sure has done many photos of this trip ( Whereas for example, in the Belgian case, there is a free access to the Belgian agency).

To use the Princess to attract to the press is very easy,and though the press often works this way, it is not wrong that also devote themselves to the important thing. Assurance that if the Princes had dedicated a few minutes to commenting on the separation of the Infanta Elena they had had hours of television.

What your you do not value for my is essential. The agencies of press, the newspapers, the televisions ... not always they can send people to all the places. If it is celebrated the year of Spain in China, and the Kings travel, and the Princes travel two times, and all the ministers of the government travel, and there travel the Presidents of Autonomous Communities ... there is no economy that allows to give coverage to all these trips. The first trip of the Princes had very much follow-up, that of the Kings also ... and it is normal that this one has had less, because was less important. More when last week the whole press that follows habitually the Royal Family was in Chile.

On the other hand, this week between Chavez and the separation of the Infanta Elena, the trip of the Princes stayed on the second plane,the press has limited itself to commenting on the economic achievements of the trip and the development of the cultural activities ... and really I, for once, am grateful for it.
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