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  #181  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
You are right of course. QE II comes first; I just wanted to state that Philip has been HRH by birth and is a heavyweight as spouse that I don't think can be matched in terms of number or quality of events and influence and his strong personality has been essential for his survival in the House of Windsor looking at the features of his wife and mother in law
So funny
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  #182  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
In US, all news anchors have to have years of reporting from the field before becoming an anchor. That seems to be the road Letizia had to go through. To belittle news anchor job to "reading a prompter" is awfully ignorant.
I think your interpretation of my knowledge is less than informed, but I would not call you ignorant, with more years wisdom may appear.
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  #183  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by giov View Post
Imo it is not true that the European Royal ladies get sidelined.
Does anybody think that Queen Elisabeth, or all the other Queens are?
I think that the husbands (for example Philippe of Edmburgh), and the wives (like Letizia) of the royal members always have a less important role and fewer activities than their wives/husbands, no matters if they are men or women. This happens in every Royal family.
I meant royal women consorts, not the female reigning monarch or heiress.

Since you brought up Duke of Edinburg, I have to ask you: Have you seen Duke of Edinburg went to visit babies and patients alone on foreign trips with the wife of the president or the queen consort of the country? It's exactly like what I asked about the husband of female presidents. I'm not talking about a "less important role". I was objecting the expectation of the wife leaving the room while the men talk about politics or business. The wife is expected to go to visit babies or patients but not the husband of the female politicians or female monarchs. In other words, it's the gender stereotype I am objecting to.

I, for one, am glad to see Letizia sat in power meetings. I'm sure she could make it through without yawning.
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  #184  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:21 PM
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Please everyone, can this not turn personal? We can all agree to disagree without being personal as I think there is room for all shades of opinion on the forum. Thank you
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  #185  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:22 PM
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[quote=lula;694633]
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Duke, please, do not be hypocritical, when the Princess goes to to an act with young people withDown's Syndrome, you continue commenting on the clothes.
Not only, maybe you don't finish reading my posts anymore when I start with the fashion I actually praised the Princess and thought that she brought along some emotional intelligence to handle such situations in a warm and professional manner.

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And her acts in solitary are not different from those of other Princesses. But now that has acts in solitarily, turns out to be that it does not value because the princesses only demonstrate anything when they do trips in solitarily. According to the Princess advances, the excuse is changing.
They don't but on the other hand she has not done as much as others or enough to call her the most well informed of all CPs. I am the first person to cheer when she does a solo event but let's keep it in perspective please. 12 solo events or so don't put her ahead of her peers, that's all I am saying.

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Certainly, the Prince has done numerous speeches in this trip, has met political and managerial Chinese representatives ... but it is not interested either, commentary nor deserves ... better we comment if he repeats tie.
Right ... he had some terrible shirt / tie combos recently. I promise to focus on Felipe too from now on since he seems not to dress as immaculately as usual anymore
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  #186  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I find it a bit exaggerated to claim that Letizia had reached the height of her profession at the age of 31. With all due respect, she did have a good career but that's it.
How is it exaggerated to say she reached the height of her profession at the age of 31? In US, being a news anchor on the evening news at a national network IS the height of TV journalist profession. Letizia reached it by the age of 31. If that's a mere "good career", Brian Williams and his counterparts just have a "good career" then.
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  #187  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:27 PM
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[quote=yamamah;694632]
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Agree 100 % !!!



And in terms of Letizia being seriously involved in heavy networking with chinese officials' wives, sorry, I don't believe that a second - it's maybe wishful thinking of those who think that the most well informed CP ever around must somehow have contributed to the success of this trip and as we couldn't see anything on pics it must have happened behind the scenes

I mean it as it is the usual things that any career diplomat's wife would do, so why not Princess Letizia? What is wrong with her just being on the trip to support her husband? Lots of wives do that.
Surely she does networking but probably not on a business trip in China when Felipe plus a delegation are around. I believe that there are more suitable fields or environments for her to do so.
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  #188  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
Yamamah, welcome to join the forum. I like Felipe and Letizia too. While I agree with you most of what you said, I have to disagree with you in this regards:

In China, politicians' wives are seldome present in this kind of occasions. They generally have much lower profile than politicians' wives in other countries. So I wouldn't be surprised if Letizia didn't meet any of them. That's not Letizia's issue. It's Chinese government's issue. These wives may not be socially or politically adept at receiving international guests. Plus, after Jiang Ching, the Communist government is probably very reluctant to have any wives taking the spotlight.

Second point is from a feminism point of view. Why should a crown princess only mingle with the wives of politicians? As we all know, men still dominate politics and economics around the world. So why couldn't a crown princess sit in power meetings with these political leaders and economic movers along side her husband? Why should a crown princess as capable, professional and knowledgable as Letizia go with the wives of politicians' wives to visit kindergartens or hospitals or sightsee? She might not speak a word at the power meetings but she could learn the issues and the diplomatic double talks. This may build her creditial for a bigger role later. I personally dislike the fact that royal women are always delegated to hospitals and kindergartens.
Thank you highpriestess I enjoy reading the forum very much
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  #189  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Gaia View Post
I think your interpretation of my knowledge is less than informed, but I would not call you ignorant, with more years wisdom may appear.
Well, then, maybe you can be kind to "inform" me what made you equate a news anchor job to "reading a prompter" so I can gain some "wisdom".

Your description of the news anchor job is very very far from my understanding. Do your countries' national networks hire pretty faces fresh out of college, train them how to read a prompter and put them in the anchor chair of the evening news? If that's the case, I can see why you hold such a low opinion of Letizia's former career.
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  #190  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by highpriestess View Post
How is it exaggerated to say she reached the height of her profession at the age of 31? In US, being a news anchor on the evening news at a national network IS the height of TV journalist profession. Letizia reached it by the age of 31. If that's a mere "good career", Brian Williams and his counterparts just have a "good career" then.
Well, I meant it that way: with all due respect, reading the news from a prompter cannot be the hight of profession for a serious journalist. We don't know why she decided or others decided that she was the one to present the evening news only a few months or weeks before her engagement to Felipe was confirmed. Letizia always described herself as a serious journalist and not as a newsreader therefore I don't see that she has reached the height of her profession as you have stated earlier - but it's without any doubt a good career that would have gone further without Felipe.
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  #191  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:53 PM
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I also didn't make any implications that Mathilde's visit of AIDS patients was unimportant. This is the folder for Spanish royal family, not Belgian. No need to bring up slighs that do not exist. I just don't like the conventional widsom that ALWAYS relegate women to the gender-stereotypical role on principle. I don't see the husband of female presidents visit babies and patients on foreign trips. It's my feminist side speaking. This has nothing to do with Letizia or Mathilde. No need to jump into Mathilde's deffense.
Well, I did not jump to someone`s defence, I just brought up a recent example of another CP trip to China, if we cant´t compare this, tja then it´s indeed all about grey suits, orange dresses and bangs.


And yes, long live the good old stereotypes. Letizia is certainly the role model for all feminists, right?
The woman who attends power meetings with her husband and learns the art of networking and diplomacy (probably without yawning). Fine. I´m certainly more impressed by her colleagues Maxima, Mette-Marit and Mathilde who visited lots of hospitals BUT also left the slipstream of their husbands, went on trips abroad on their own and performed the art of power meetings with presidents and other political key players. This is an observable proof of influence. So I think the feminist stereotypes simply don´t work here.
“Behind closed doors” and “hidden preparations” these are the slogans which pop up when it comes to describe Letizia´s role. It´s such vague discussion. I wish this closed doors would finally open!
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  #192  
Old 11-18-2007, 11:36 PM
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Well, I did not jump to someone`s defence, I just brought up a recent example of another CP trip to China, if we cant´t compare this, tja then it´s indeed all about grey suits, orange dresses and bangs.


And yes, long live the good old stereotypes. Letizia is certainly the role model for all feminists, right?
The woman who attends power meetings with her husband and learns the art of networking and diplomacy (probably without yawning). Fine. I´m certainly more impressed by her colleagues Maxima, Mette-Marit and Mathilde who visited lots of hospitals BUT also left the slipstream of their husbands, went on trips abroad on their own and performed the art of power meetings with presidents and other political key players. This is an observable proof of influence. So I think the feminist stereotypes simply don´t work here.
“Behind closed doors” and “hidden preparations” these are the slogans which pop up when it comes to describe Letizia´s role. It´s such vague discussion. I wish this closed doors would finally open!

You are right, it's always in very vague term that we can read that Maxima, Mette Marit and Mathilde "visited lots of hospitals" . And to perform the art of power meetings with presidents and others political key players, i'm a little suspicious because as far I know none of this Crown Princesses have the power to do that when they are in official visit. But may be I don't understand very well your purposes. In this case the best way to explain your thaught is to give samples, isen't it?
Maxima has her own field of activity very well know, the microcredit; Mette Marit, the AIDS, Mathilde, all that concern the childhood but when a princely couple is visiting a foreign country none of this crown princesses have a specific role. The best proof for the belgium economic mission it's always the Prince Philippe who is in charge of the mission and in relation with the autorities.
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  #193  
Old 11-18-2007, 11:49 PM
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Adelaide, I was just about to write something similar. I'd like to hear some examples where Maxima, Mathilde and MM attended "power meetings with presidents and other key power players" without their husband on foreign visits. If they did, I would be the first one to cheer for them.
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  #194  
Old 11-19-2007, 03:43 AM
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If the China trip had been covered more by the media, it would have been a nice PR for the Princes in Spain, more Spaniards would be able to see how the Princes worked aboard. I doubt anyone here would think the Chinese cared about how many Spanish journalists were following the Princes around in China. The media coverage doesn't have much to do with the real purpose of this trip in China, the Princes were there signing the agreement with the Chinese government to export pork/ham to China, attending the economic forums, networking with the high level officials. With my experience of sales in China, if you know the important people up there, the business deals can be closed a lot faster. I'm glad to see that Jia, chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC), expressed appreciation for the active role played by Spain's royal family in boosting relations, which are at "their historical high".
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  #195  
Old 11-19-2007, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Well, I meant it that way: with all due respect, reading the news from a prompter cannot be the hight of profession for a serious journalist. We don't know why she decided or others decided that she was the one to present the evening news only a few months or weeks before her engagement to Felipe was confirmed. Letizia always described herself as a serious journalist and not as a newsreader therefore I don't see that she has reached the height of her profession as you have stated earlier - but it's without any doubt a good career that would have gone further without Felipe.
All the people reading the evening news are serious journalists in Spain, can you tell me which one is not ? They are not just the news readers, they are also news editors, interviewers, news correspondents for the important events and doing many other things. But I don't think she had reached the height of her profession yet at 31. TVE wanted to have her replace Urdaci eventually, with the Socialists coming into power and giving women lots of important positions, she had a very good chance to be the solo anchor at the everning news totally dominated by men. There is no doubt Letizia had a great career among her generation journalists.
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  #196  
Old 11-19-2007, 04:53 AM
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Well, I did not jump to someone`s defence, I just brought up a recent example of another CP trip to China, if we cant´t compare this, tja then it´s indeed all about grey suits, orange dresses and bangs.


And yes, long live the good old stereotypes. Letizia is certainly the role model for all feminists, right?
The woman who attends power meetings with her husband and learns the art of networking and diplomacy (probably without yawning). Fine. I´m certainly more impressed by her colleagues Maxima, Mette-Marit and Mathilde who visited lots of hospitals BUT also left the slipstream of their husbands, went on trips abroad on their own and performed the art of power meetings with presidents and other political key players. This is an observable proof of influence. So I think the feminist stereotypes simply don´t work here.
“Behind closed doors” and “hidden preparations” these are the slogans which pop up when it comes to describe Letizia´s role. It´s such vague discussion. I wish this closed doors would finally open!
I completely agree johann. At least the three CPs you mention are respected in their own fields of interest, have their own profile and do well directed solo events or even longer trips on their own, apart from the usual stuff they do with their husbands. Unless those closed doors will open it will remain a vague discussion as we can only speculate on any level of influence or input by CPs Letizia when atteding meetings or trips alongside her husband.

I am always stunned by the conclusion that because of Letizia's CV as a journalist she must be the best prepared CP around. It certainly helps in some areas but can also be obstructive in others, same thing with other professions. Thanks to Zarzuela's closed door policy there is no full picture of her capabilities and therefore I wonder on what people base their opinion that Letizia is such a well prepared CP. For me Letizia is the reversed Mette Marit who did not have any professional background or the best social grades but has managed to gain a lot of respect for the commitment she puts into her own fields of interest or work as CP, probably encouraged by Harald and Sonja who gave their support and backup from the beginning, something the grey men in Zarzuela are still not prepared to do in Letizia's case.
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  #197  
Old 11-19-2007, 05:00 AM
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All the people reading the evening news are serious journalists in Spain, can you tell me which one is not ? They are not just the news readers, they are also news editors, interviewers, news correspondents for the important events and doing many other things. But I don't think she had reached the height of her profession yet at 31. TVE wanted to have her replace Urdaci eventually, with the Socialists coming into power and giving women lots of important positions, she had a very good chance to be the solo anchor at the everning news totally dominated by men. There is no doubt Letizia had a great career among her generation journalists.
Most newsreaders have a journalistic background but I still don't think that - if the emphasis is on being a journalist - becoming a newsreader is the hight of profession therefore I completely agree with the second part of your post. I don't doubt Letizia's journalistic qualities but when being chosen as newsreader it's not only about professional qualities but also about looks and maybe, as you indicate, gender. Letizia had to offer a solid combination of everything, I believe.
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  #198  
Old 11-19-2007, 05:34 AM
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Duke, the information about the capacities or the attitude of the Princess in her public acts appear in every serious news on someone of her acts ... but to know it is necessary to report, it is necessary to read, and know that it is read. Only if one worries for being informed well, can come to good conclusions.

The Spanish Royal House has wanted to follow its own form of work, which can be different from others, but it is perfectly respectable. For them it would be very easy to use the image of the Princess, she catches many attention, and she might be the perfect protagonist of a " wash of image ". But they have preferred going stepwise, and their reasons will have. So patience, this one is a race of long distance, the Monarchies are in the public eye the whole life. The own Princess commented on it a few weeks ago in the act of Save the Children, she has had many offers, but until she does not know the projects in depth and does not have time to devote herself from a serious form to a project, is not going to do it.
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  #199  
Old 11-19-2007, 06:05 AM
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I'm always astonished by the conclusions regarding Maxima, Mette Marit, Mathilde who, for some of you, could be very active Crown Princesses by themselves meanwhile this poor Letizia could be just the shadow of her husband when she isn't the flower pot. My reflexion is very simple because, except for Maxima, I don't know very well the work of Mette Marit and Mathilde.

As I'm not very well informed about the work of this crown Princesses I has been to read the threads regarding their job.... What a surprise! A lot of words in the thread regarding the Princes of Asturias to defend a too little work by year for this Crown Princesses.

Surely i'm biaised because I don't understand the few commentaries about the job of this Crown Princesses. To be very precise, when the threads regarding the Princess of Asturias are reaching to the number...12, none of the the threads regarding the other Crown princesses are so important.

I know that for the Princess of Asturias the topics are somtimes very superficial because turning around " She is.." or " She isen't" whithout to reach at some conclusions as if the single fact to say anything about Letizia could be a justification for a speeches. I know too that for the princess of Asturias much of the topics were about the necessity of her own agenda... and now that she has, are on her warderobe as if the analysis of her work was totally whithout interest because means reflexion!

Now, if we have to think about the Princess of Asturias 's career, it's possible because she had one and whatever she was a brillant anchorwoman, she was abble to think as a newspaper since the begining of her studies because as a lot of joung students, the Princess of Asturias has worked for the press very sooner. But I don't think it's the topic, one more time for me it's only padding because the true question is how in a country were a crown prince don't have a specific constitutional role her spouse can have one which could'nt be only a charitable one?
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Old 11-19-2007, 01:15 PM
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Sometimes you buy Wall Street Journal, sometimes you buy Hello, I'm afraid Hello is more close to us than WST, life is too complicated to come here to speak about the importance of the inflation in Turkey.... Yes we speak about how Princess Maxima is helping with the Microcredits or what a good thing it is that Princess Mary patronize the Denmark Fashion Nest and yes, when the activities are directly related to those we surely speak more in detail about it but lest be honest, we always ending talking about their jewelry, clothes, designers they wear, how good (or not) they looked etc, how beautiful (or not) their kids are ... if we will be allow in the "Current Activities Threads..." to speak only about the purpose of the trips or events I guarantee you the threads will have two pages, if.

I guess the ones who wants to speak about the meetings the royals had deeply and debate for instance what do they spoke with the President of the Comunist Party to go ahead and talk about that (I don't think there's enough info though and I can't imagine a more boring conversation, but the difference is that I won't dare to tell anyone not to do so) and the ones who want to speak about their clothes, gestures etc to do the same witout being bothered. I don't underestand people who want others to do what they pleased, they should spend more time talking about the importance of the trip than lecturing us, I'm an adult -and unless the moderators says otherwise and always adhering to the forum rules- I'm going to talk about whatever I pleased.
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