Official Visit to Saudi-Arabia, February 2016


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Accomodating despots who spit on the most basal human rights. Anyway, all for business. It is not the King's own will, he just moulds into the wishes of the Spanish Government.

I hope he will make a diplomatic plea for human rights, democracy and tolerance. The idea that the female contributors on these royal forums will not be able to drive a car in Saudi-Arabia is too crazy for words.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
Accomodating despots who spit on the most basal human rights. Anyway, all for business. It is not the King's own will, he just moulds into the wishes of the Spanish Government.

I hope he will make a diplomatic plea for human rights, democracy and tolerance. The idea that the female contributors on these royal forums will not be able to drive a car in Saudi-Arabia is too crazy for words.
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At risk of sounding trite ... In what context could King Felipe "make a diplomatic plea for human rights, democracy and tolerance"? Investment beggars are in no position to lecture anyone.
 
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Exactly. If human rights were important, Felipe could have stayed at home but he went there to court the money, like all other western governments do. All this talk about democracy (or the way Europeans understand it) or human rights becomes a sham when doing business deals with the Saudis or China etc. In the end, its money that counts, not morals.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
Exactly. If human rights were important, Felipe could have stayed at home but he went there to court the money, like all other western governments do. All this talk about democracy (or the way Europeans understand it) or human rights becomes a sham when doing business deals with the Saudis or China etc. In the end, its money that counts, not morals.
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I think that is more than a little harsh, displaying both ignorance and arrogance. It is not our place to tell other countries that they should live "democratically" as we do.

Our western societies are based on our histories, our culture, our values, so too are theirs. King Felipe should not be damned for visiting as the first steps in any season of change, starts with dialogue, and dialogue isn't possible if countries judge and boycott them.

Human rights are best addressed through the UN as I don't believe there is a democracy out there that, if examined closely, would stand the acid test of total virtue. The African continents stands as a damning example of post-colonial democracy imposed on those who have no historic experience of that type of government. That it should lead to chaos, military coups and revolutions is not surprising.

In times of strife and change, human rights seem to be one of the first casualties and that goes for democracies as well. We have floods of multi-ethnic refugees, terrorism, not to mention the iniquity of imprisonment without trial or hope of justice. And that happens in so-called western democracies. Perhaps we would be better addressing our own shortcomings rather than trying to bend others to our will.

Spain is no better nor worse than any other "democracy" and King Felipe is doing his duty.
 
MARG said:
I think that is more than a little harsh, displaying both ignorance and arrogance. It is not our place to tell other countries that they should live "democratically" as we do.

Our western societies are based on our histories, our culture, our values, so too are theirs. King Felipe should not be damned for visiting as the first steps in any season of change, starts with dialogue, and dialogue isn't possible if countries judge and boycott them.

Human rights are best addressed through the UN as I don't believe there is a democracy out there that, if examined closely, would stand the acid test of total virtue. The African continents stands as a damning example of post-colonial democracy imposed on those who have no historic experience of that type of government. That it should lead to chaos, military coups and revolutions is not surprising.

In times of strife and change, human rights seem to be one of the first casualties and that goes for democracies as well. We have floods of multi-ethnic refugees, terrorism, not to mention the iniquity of imprisonment without trial or hope of justice. And that happens in so-called western democracies. Perhaps we would be better addressing our own shortcomings rather than trying to bend others to our will.

Spain is no better nor worse than any other "democracy" and King Felipe is doing his duty.
Click to expand...

It seems you have misread my post. I never said that we should tell other countries that they should live "democratically" as we do. What I pointed out is the hypocracy of the Western Countries, calling SA out for human rights issues etc but have no problem taking their oil and money. If they felt so strongly about human rights etc as they sometimes pretend to feel then they should stay at home, all of them. But they don't.

I don't think 'Western Democracies' are in the position of calling others out at all. Of course they are free to start a dialogue (often for political correctness only or because it is 'expected' and gives the card blanche for business) but we all know it will lead to nothing.

And yes, Spain is no better or worse than other democracies, as I said at the beginning of my post. I did not single out or critizise Felipe for going there. He only does what all the others do.
 
 
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