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  #161  
Old 11-29-2006, 04:22 PM
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Spain: equal rights

In the dark heart of machismo shines a beacon of sexual equalitry


Thomas Catan, Madrid
In 30 years Spanish women have gone from being mere chattels to the most liberated in Europe. They are even on the road signs


NI_MPU('middle');They make up half the Spanish population but have yet to appear on a single coin. Now MPs are preparing to pass a bill stipulating that 50 per cent of Spain’s euro coins must bear a woman’s image.

“For women, this is absolutely fundamental,” said Elvira Cortajarena, the Socialist MP sponsoring the measure. “We need our work to be recognised and valued.”
In Fuenlabrada, a commuter town on the outskirts of Madrid, authorities are taking aim at other perceived symbols of male domination. The town council has decreed that half of the street signs should show a recognisably female figure. New signs at pedestrian crossings show a stick figure with a skirt and a pony tail, rather than the traditional striding man. “The idea is to change the male signs for female ones as they deteriorate,” said Rosalina Guijarro, the town’s traffic and safety councillor. “That way we will end the sexism that has existed in traffic signs.”
All over Spain, long considered the spiritual home of machismo, debate is raging about gender equality in a way that has not been heard in other European countries since the 1970s.
Efforts to give the country’s coins and street signs a female face have been met with some derision by conservatives as evidence of political correctness gone mad. But those symbolic moves are being accompanied by one of the most ambitious efforts to promote gender equality seen in decades.
Source: Times database
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...6981_2,00.html
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  #162  
Old 12-19-2006, 11:28 AM
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The real question here is: if Felipe has a son, will that son be robbed of his birthright as heir, and be knocked down a couple of steps in the order of succession? Or will the new succession law start with the children of that yet to be born prince?

This would be a lot easier if Felipe never gets a son, or if he gets one AFTER the new succession law has been passed.
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Old 12-19-2006, 09:04 PM
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I don't see it as being ''robbed'' of anything.
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  #164  
Old 12-19-2006, 11:06 PM
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As I have posted on this forum before in the Swedish thread, IMO the firstborn, whether male or female should inherit the throne. In the case of the Spanish Royal Family, that person should be Infanta Leonor. I do hope that the law will be changed and that Leonor will be queen one day.
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  #165  
Old 05-31-2007, 10:48 AM
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When Letizia and Felipe were expecting their second child they found out the sex of the baby so that if it was a boy, they would perhaps reform the constitution before birth. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

However the baby was a girl and so there was no need for an immediate reform. What happens when Leonor has a daughter and she should be Queen but there is still no reform of the constitution. Surely the reform is inevitable, it is just a question of when the timing is right?
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ZandraRae
As I have posted on this forum before in the Swedish thread, IMO the firstborn, whether male or female should inherit the throne. In the case of the Spanish Royal Family, that person should be Infanta Leonor. I do hope that the law will be changed and that Leonor will be queen one day.
I totally agree, male or female, they should be the next to the throne
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  #167  
Old 06-12-2007, 03:25 PM
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So, according to this we could take for a fact that Leonor is the heiress to the Spanish throne.. ¿?
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  #168  
Old 06-12-2007, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mari_*
So, according to this we could take for a fact that Leonor is the heiress to the Spanish throne.. ¿?
At the moment it's a fact - provided that Letizia does not give birth to a boy before a reform of the constitution.

So if there is no boy, Leonor will be Queen anyway, even without a reform. If there is a boy, he will be heir until a reform.

I am sure the reform will come as everybody, public, politicians and SRF want Leonor or the first born in general to be heir, no matter what gender (Felipe's generation excluded of course).

Leonor's christening already marked the first step of her upbringing as heir, with King and Queen as godparents, all important people present and making use of the baptismal font that is only reserved for the heir to the throne. I expect Sofia's christening a much more private and low key event, looking forward to it
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  #169  
Old 06-12-2007, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
At the moment it's a fact - provided that Letizia does not give birth to a boy before a reform of the constitution.

So if there is no boy, Leonor will be Queen anyway, even without a reform. If there is a boy, he will be heir until a reform.

I am sure the reform will come as everybody, public, politicians and SRF want Leonor or the first born in general to be heir, no matter what gender (Felipe's generation excluded of course).

Leonor's christening already marked the first step of her upbringing as heir, with King and Queen as godparents, all important people present and making use of the baptismal font that is only reserved for the heir to the throne. I expect Sofia's christening a much more private and low key event, looking forward to it
You are right, but you make a mistake: baptismal font is reserved for the "infantes" (princes) of Spain not only for the heir to the throne. Sofía also will use this font.

I think spanish people will not admit that Leonor will not be queen.
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  #170  
Old 06-12-2007, 08:22 PM
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I've just read an article today where it says that the reform of the constitution is a very long and complicated process.
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  #171  
Old 06-13-2007, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mapian
You are right, but you make a mistake: baptismal font is reserved for the "infantes" (princes) of Spain not only for the heir to the throne. Sofía also will use this font.

I think spanish people will not admit that Leonor will not be queen.
Oh yes you are right. Got confused here. Do we know if the baptism will take place in the palace or at Zarzuela?

Even if F & L will have a boy, I have the feeling that Leonor should be Queen and the constitution should be changed. But as you mentioned in another post, it will be tricky for many reasons and in the end the SRF fears either a change to their role or abolishment, worst case cenario. It's no secret that there are public movements / politicians who want to get rid of / cut powers of the monarchy who will try to use this long awaited once in a lifetime opportunity for their own purposes.
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  #172  
Old 06-13-2007, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
Oh yes you are right. Got confused here. Do we know if the baptism will take place in the palace or at Zarzuela?

Even if F & L will have a boy, I have the feeling that Leonor should be Queen and the constitution should be changed. But as you mentioned in another post, it will be tricky for many reasons and in the end the SRF fears either a change to their role or abolishment, worst case cenario. It's no secret that there are public movements / politicians who want to get rid of / cut powers of the monarchy who will try to use this long awaited once in a lifetime opportunity for their own purposes.
It's hard for me write in Inglish, that's a link from Leonor's baptism thread, I think Sofia's baptism will be very similar, simple and familiar.

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...06-a-7826.html

Yes, it is dificult change some articles of spanish constitution, Monarchy opposition is minority in Spain, but they make a lot of noise, this change is a good oportunity for them.
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  #173  
Old 06-13-2007, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by dazzling
I totally agree, male or female, they should be the next to the throne
Agreed. I never undestood in this day and age that we are in that some of the prehistoric beliefs are still in place. I am not saying desmantle traditions but there are certain cases that just need to be adjusted for the times. Today woman are just as capable and have the same opportunities as men, (I am talking about the Western world here, which Spain is part of)

So no longer is it true that a make is more qualified or better prepared to rule than a female, just simply by being born a male.

It may be a long and complicated process to change the constititution but for this issue, it would be worth the trouble.

JMO
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  #174  
Old 06-13-2007, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
But as you mentioned in another post, it will be tricky for many reasons and in the end the SRF fears either a change to their role or abolishment, worst case cenario. It's no secret that there are public movements / politicians who want to get rid of / cut powers of the monarchy who will try to use this long awaited once in a lifetime opportunity for their own purposes.
Yes, so I've read. That the referendum could lead to referendum of monarchy yes, or monarchy not.
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  #175  
Old 06-13-2007, 06:51 PM
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In firts place, I think that thank you to discrimination to some princess, some countries, in specially in Europe, had a great kings. For example, King Badouin of Belgium, he was a great king. Now, King Harald is a good king but his older sister had to be discriminated for that Harald, because he is man, he could be a king. In this times, there are monarchies with heirs males, except in Sweden. But, I think that is very hard for a prince has a job that dont be as crown prince as Carl Philip. Is princess Victoria happy as crown princess ?
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  #176  
Old 06-14-2007, 04:41 AM
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Some countries in Europe still prefer the male heir but I think the reasons why this was once established are out of date today. Best example is the Netherlands with their very popular Queens in the past generations. I have no doubt that Princess Anne or Infanta Elena - provided they had received the same education as their younger brothers - would be very capable to do the "top job".

What I sometimes think is that it might be more difficult for a future Queen to find a suitable spouse as men in general are more reluctant to fit into the consort role as for society it's more natural to see a woman there. It's somehow fixed in our minds since it has been mostly the case in the past centuries - with some exceptions of course.
There were / are great male consorts around but they all admitted that their life was not easy in the shadow of a Queen, just think of Prince Philip, Prince Claus or Prince Bernhard. They all had their difficulties with their role and I imagine that - in case they get married - Daniel Westling's task won't be exactly easy either. But maybe society will have moved on regarding this issue once Leonor is old enough to chose her partner.
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  #177  
Old 06-14-2007, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
Some countries in Europe still prefer the male heir but I think the reasons why this was once established are out of date today. Best example is the Netherlands with their very popular Queens in the past generations. I have no doubt that Princess Anne or Infanta Elena - provided they had received the same education as their younger brothers - would be very capable to do the "top job".

What I sometimes think is that it might be more difficult for a future Queen to find a suitable spouse as men in general are more reluctant to fit into the consort role as for society it's more natural to see a woman there. It's somehow fixed in our minds since it has been mostly the case in the past centuries - with some exceptions of course.
There were / are great male consorts around but they all admitted that their life was not easy in the shadow of a Queen, just think of Prince Philip, Prince Claus or Prince Bernhard. They all had their difficulties with their role and I imagine that - in case they get married - Daniel Westling's task won't be exactly easy either. But maybe society will have moved on regarding this issue once Leonor is old enough to chose her partner.
I totally agree with you. That's what I've always thought.
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  #178  
Old 06-14-2007, 08:54 PM
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Dear Duke of Marmelade the Pile of San Dominic de Guzman is used for all the Infants of Spain and not only for the futur heir.
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  #179  
Old 06-26-2007, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Some countries in Europe still prefer the male heir but I think the reasons why this was once established are out of date today. Best example is the Netherlands with their very popular Queens in the past generations. I have no doubt that Princess Anne or Infanta Elena - provided they had received the same education as their younger brothers - would be very capable to do the "top job".

What I sometimes think is that it might be more difficult for a future Queen to find a suitable spouse as men in general are more reluctant to fit into the consort role as for society it's more natural to see a woman there. It's somehow fixed in our minds since it has been mostly the case in the past centuries - with some exceptions of course.
There were / are great male consorts around but they all admitted that their life was not easy in the shadow of a Queen, just think of Prince Philip, Prince Claus or Prince Bernhard. They all had their difficulties with their role and I imagine that - in case they get married - Daniel Westling's task won't be exactly easy either. But maybe society will have moved on regarding this issue once Leonor is old enough to chose her partner.

totally agree,Besides,I've another point, my admiration of monarchies is mainly due to stability and tradition reserved for hundreds of years so I prefer no change in spanish conistitution.this of course doesn't mean I don't want Leonor to be queen but when this is her right according to the current conistitution.
one more point,I think changing conistitution will take away the right of Leonor younger brother"if any".
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  #180  
Old 09-27-2007, 06:15 PM
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I was reading another forum about spanish royals and there they had a wonderful discussion about why changing the constitution in favor of infanta leonor is almost imposible,they said the goverment decide to change the constitution,the referandum result would be yes,but the real problem is the campaign for the referandum beacuse the campaign will be the great chance that the oppositions(republican and nationalist)dream of and people start to talk about the existence of monarchey.THAT'S WHY THE PRINCES WAS TOLD NOT HAVE ANOTHER CHILD.
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