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  #141  
Old 08-12-2006, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariel
Even when politicians agree that the reform about the sucession law is fair and that all of them agree about it. It is not their priority. I am not even sure it is the priority for the royal house. Having Leonor or another child (a boy in this case) to be the heir to the throne is not as important as to maintain the support of the country to the monarchy and everybody knows this is a very delicate moment in Spain and Felipe and Letizia should demonstrate to the people that maintaining the monarchy is a good thing for Spain, for that reason i think they are working so hard. I would prefer they change the constitution before a boy is born to their family as i think it is not a good thing what happened in Sweeden, it can also be possible that deep inside the royal family they prefer a male to the throne like in Japan or like the king of sweeden. It does not mean they dont love the girls but i know many modern families where males are prefered, specially for certain jobs.
Several things.

1. The case in Spain is not the same that in Sweden. When in Sweden they did the reform Carl Gustav already was a King, which does not happen with the prince Felipe. Leonor only is an Infanta not Princess of Asturias. While the King is a King the Infanta will not be a heiress.

2. The Reform of the Constitution is a very complicated process, and there are many different readings. Several things want to be modified, and the majority they prefer modifying them all together, to make it easier, the problem is that in this one it is in the only one that they agree. There is certain fear of which if it is done only on this topic, the parties anti monarchy want to turn it into a debate on monarchies yes and monarchy not ... and already we have enough problems.

3. Since has said Toledo, the Spain of the S.XXI, would not accept that Leonor was losing her place ... the Royal Family and the politicians know it. Leonor's baptism was a succession of small symbols woven with a lot of care. The godfathers were the Kings, there was photo of the King, the Prince and Leonor, there was photo of the Princes with the girl, and the power of the State. Small images that without saying anything explicitly they were saying very much.


The Spanish politics in this moment is a world of madmen, the politicians are every worse day ... so there will be necessary to wait to see that it happens.

The Princes are in a very difficult position, in which familiar and political life there are so close that almost cannot separate. They always have expressed the desire to have several children and that Leonor should have brothers or sisters. Leonor needs brothers or sisters, to grow alone she at Zarzuela would not be good.
If they decide to have more children, the polemic is insured. Some of them even will accuse them of being bad Princes for creating a problem. The polemic and the pressure would be major that the first time (where the pressure already was great), and besides the possible prejudice to their image how Princes, this one the possible prejudice to the health of the Princess or of a future baby. To live through a pregnancy in this situation of pressure can´t be good.
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  #142  
Old 09-06-2006, 11:27 PM
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I thought this article was interesting:

http://www.bruneitimes.com.bn/details.php?shape_ID=4603

Spain: Succession is via male primogeniture. The Government has talked of changing the law, but any change would only affect future generations. The current crown prince is Felipe, son of King Juan Carlos; second in line is the elder of the prince's two daughters, Infanta Leonor.

Must be confusing Felipe with his father.
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  #143  
Old 09-11-2006, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morhange
I thought this article was interesting:

http://www.bruneitimes.com.bn/details.php?shape_ID=4603

Spain: Succession is via male primogeniture. The Government has talked of changing the law, but any change would only affect future generations. The current crown prince is Felipe, son of King Juan Carlos; second in line is the elder of the prince's two daughters, Infanta Leonor.

Must be confusing Felipe with his father.
No. Felipe's sister Elena is older than Felipe. I truly hope though that if a little boy is born, that the people are kind to him. None of this is his fault.
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  #144  
Old 09-26-2006, 05:48 AM
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Amendment to the Spanish Constitution

If Princess Letizia gives birth to a boy, do you think that they will not change the Constitution -Succession law, and Leonor will loose her rights, in favour of her brother?

In my opinion it will be difficult to decide, after the birth of the boy (if any), they should change, NOW.
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  #145  
Old 09-26-2006, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003
If Princess Letizia gives birth to a boy, do you think that they will not change the Constitution -Succession law, and Leonor will loose her rights, in favour of her brother?

In my opinion it will be difficult to decide, after the birth of the boy (if any), they should change, NOW.
I'm absolutely sure that sooner or later the constitution will be changed. I think that society in Spain, being conscious that other monarchies have their Queens, and Spain not, will be extremely angry. Now Spain is a very modern country and won't allowed to have such an old-fashioned thing in their constitution, as male preference under female.

Article from elmundo about leader of the opposition, Mariano Rajoy and his statement about changing of the constitution:

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2006/0...159272738.html

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2006/0...159210878.html
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  #146  
Old 09-28-2006, 03:48 PM
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http://www.antena3.com/a3noticias/se...si&id=11574072

The news about the pregnancy of Princess Letizia takes place when the Government was thinking about starting a round of contacts, about the reform of the Constitution. Anyway, this is not an urgent subject, because it is not necessary to name the heir among the Prince's children, before he is crowned King.
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  #147  
Old 10-14-2006, 03:32 PM
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An article for "El Mundo":

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2006/1...160787439.html

80% of the Spaniards support the Constitution equals for the woman in the succession to the crown
A survey made by Sigma Dos for "El Mundo" shows that more than 80.7% of the population is pronounced in favor of which the Constitution reforms to equal for the woman in the succession to the crown.
The second pregnancy of the Princess of Asturias has put again on the rug the question of the necessity to reform the Carta Magna to equal the rights of the woman to those of man in the succession to the Throne. 80.7% of the prengutados ones therefore as opposed to consider it a 9.3% that it thinks that it is not necessary to touch the constitutional text. Even, they are plus that say not to know or not to want to answer (10%) that who maintain that to the Constitution is good as it is.
There are no discrepancies in no of the registered segments. All think mainly in the same way, whatever their ideological preferences. I
t is only necessary to emphasize that the voters of Izquierda Unida add themselves to the majority opinion in favor of the constitutional change, but in that section appears a 24.2% that it says that does not know or it does not answer. They are the republicans.
With respect to the question: Is urgent that reform? The majority responds that it is not it (67%), although a 26.8% consider that already there is haste to approach this change.
But, of the answers of the consulted ones it is deduced that they have taken good note from the explanations, not always easy, that the last year and means have occurred throughout on the question.
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  #148  
Old 11-09-2006, 12:18 PM
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Fernandez Field: reform Constitution when Prince is King The ex- head of the House of Sabino His Majesty the King Fernandez Field was today in favor of which the constitutional reform that would allow to accede to a woman to Corona carries out when the present Prince of Asturias is King. Fernandez Field, that is in Tenerife to distribute a conference on the Monarchy and the Constitution, including in the cycle organized by the Parliament of the Canary Islands on the centenary from the visit to the Canary Islands de Alfonso XII, considered that the reform of the Constitution demands severe requirements. He explained that it will be necessary to dissolve Cortes and the call of a referendum, and for that reason is difficult that a government who is in the power finds the moment for doing it. In his opinion, it is necessary to approach this reform wisely and calm and affirmed that in case Princess Letizia gave light another girl the things would not be complicarían, since there would be terms to carry out the reform of the Constitution that will allow Infant Leonor to accede in the future to Corona. In case that the boy who waits for the Princess outside man, the things, according to Fernandez Field, would be more complicated, since this it would be born with rights in agreement with the present Constitution. It remembered that the Council of State has discarded that are retroactive effects in the constitutional modification but, in his opinion, although there are no legal effects and legal retroactive yes he could have them moral. If it is understood that the woman must have such right, somebody could think why Infant Elena does not have that right, if the Prince has still not gotten to reign, said to Fernandez Field. ' They are subjects that there are to approach with much calm and much prudenciá, it concluded
http://actualidad.terra.es/familia-r...ey_1198790.htm
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  #149  
Old 11-09-2006, 01:53 PM
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I hope that the couple next child is a girl, if it's a boy then Leonor will be immediately placed after him in the line of succession.
Spain is not Sweden, in Spain there is still a lot of male chauvinism, and it would be quite difficult to change the law if Leonor had a brother (even in Sweden things were not that nice when it happened)
Another problem is the catholic church, I read in El Mundo that many sections of the church are reluctant to the change of the law because they think it is a tradition and traditions must be kept.
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  #150  
Old 11-09-2006, 05:53 PM
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An alternate translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by infanteleonor
Fernandez Field: reform Constitution when Prince is King The ex- head of the House of Sabino His Majesty the King Fernandez Field was today in favor of which the constitutional reform that would allow to accede to a woman to Corona carries out when the present Prince of Asturias is King. Fernandez Field, that is in Tenerife to distribute a conference on the Monarchy and the Constitution, including in the cycle organized by the Parliament of the Canary Islands on the centenary from the visit to the Canary Islands de Alfonso XII, considered that the reform of the Constitution demands severe requirements. He explained that it will be necessary to dissolve Cortes and the call of a referendum, and for that reason is difficult that a government who is in the power finds the moment for doing it. In his opinion, it is necessary to approach this reform wisely and calm and affirmed that in case Princess Letizia gave light another girl the things would not be complicarían, since there would be terms to carry out the reform of the Constitution that will allow Infant Leonor to accede in the future to Corona. In case that the boy who waits for the Princess outside man, the things, according to Fernandez Field, would be more complicated, since this it would be born with rights in agreement with the present Constitution. It remembered that the Council of State has discarded that are retroactive effects in the constitutional modification but, in his opinion, although there are no legal effects and legal retroactive yes he could have them moral. If it is understood that the woman must have such right, somebody could think why Infant Elena does not have that right, if the Prince has still not gotten to reign, said to Fernandez Field. ' They are subjects that there are to approach with much calm and much prudenciá, it concluded
http://actualidad.terra.es/familia-r...ey_1198790.htm
The following is my alternate translation of this article.
Sabino Fernandez Campo, former head of household for His Majesty the King, demonstrated today that he would support constitutional reform that would permit a female to ascend to the throne only when the current Prince of Asturias becomes King.

Fernandez Campo, in Tenerife to participate in a conference concerning the Monarchy and the Constitution, part of the presentation organized by the Parliament in the Canary Islands commemorating the centennial of the visit to the Canary Islands by Alfonso XII, suggested that constitutional reform requires extreme measures (requisitos severos).

He explained that it would be necessary to dissolve the Courts and convene a referendum, which is difficult for a government in power to find an opportune moment to do.

In his opinion, this reform must be broached with prudence and calm, and affirmed that in the event that Princess Letizia were to give birth to another female, it would not complicate matters, since there would be time to implement reforms permitting Infanta Leonor to succeed to the throne.

In the event that the child whom Princess Letizia now expects is a male, matters, he acknowledged, would be more complicated, since he would inherit a present right to the Crown upon his birth.

He recalled that the Council of State has given retroactive application to prior constitutional amendments, but in his opinion, while such changes might not have judicial or legal effect, they might have a moral effect.

If a change were enacted giving a female heir comparable rights of inheritance, one wonders why the Infanta Elena would not inherit those rights.
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  #151  
Old 11-09-2006, 06:50 PM
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I think if it's a boy he will be the heir..
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  #152  
Old 11-10-2006, 05:07 AM
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Thanks Bmoliveira for your translation.
We have to par attention when we use internet dictionary firts to the name of family, then for the technical words, because some time the electronique dictionary is making barbarism and false sens which give a wrong sens of the text. ( It's the reason why, for my part, I use it with a lot of prudence)
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  #153  
Old 11-10-2006, 03:59 PM
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I got confused.
felipe would be the king in 10 years,so in 10 years he would have his complete number of children he want.so if this baby is girl,they won't change the law,but if the next baby was boy,what would happen?they will wait until he become king?in 2008 there is an election why do they held a referandum and change the law?
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  #154  
Old 11-10-2006, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aryo
I got confused.
felipe would be the king in 10 years,so in 10 years he would have his complete number of children he want.so if this baby is girl,they won't change the law,but if the next baby was boy,what would happen?they will wait until he become king?in 2008 there is an election why do they held a referandum and change the law?
That is the question! An other one, why Aznar didn't do it also?
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  #155  
Old 11-10-2006, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMOlivera
The following is my alternate translation of this article.
Sabino Fernandez Campo, former head of household for His Majesty the King, demonstrated today that he would support constitutional reform that would permit a female to ascend to the throne only when the current Prince of Asturias becomes King.

Fernandez Campo, in Tenerife to participate in a conference concerning the Monarchy and the Constitution, part of the presentation organized by the Parliament in the Canary Islands commemorating the centennial of the visit to the Canary Islands by Alfonso XII, suggested that constitutional reform requires extreme measures (requisitos severos).

He explained that it would be necessary to dissolve the Courts and convene a referendum, which is difficult for a government in power to find an opportune moment to do.

In his opinion, this reform must be broached with prudence and calm, and affirmed that in the event that Princess Letizia were to give birth to another female, it would not complicate matters, since there would be time to implement reforms permitting Infanta Leonor to succeed to the throne.

In the event that the child whom Princess Letizia now expects is a male, matters, he acknowledged, would be more complicated, since he would inherit a present right to the Crown upon his birth.

He recalled that the Council of State has given retroactive application to prior constitutional amendments, but in his opinion, while such changes might not have judicial or legal effect, they might have a moral effect.

If a change were enacted giving a female heir comparable rights of inheritance, one wonders why the Infanta Elena would not inherit those rights.
Wouldn't this be the same as in Norway? (Crown Prince Haakon & Princess Märtha-Louise) so it is possible
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  #156  
Old 11-10-2006, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Robijn
Wouldn't this be the same as in Norway? (Crown Prince Haakon & Princess Märtha-Louise) so it is possible
Yes, and the same thing that in Belgium (Philippe and Astrid). What happens is that in Spain to the people much likes to create polemics and to discuss very much. What happens is that with this reform others have to be done there are a lot of different interests, for what there are people interested in creating polemics or looking for polemics, to complicate everything.

The Government, the Council of State and the Chairwoman of the Constitutional Court have repeated it often. The succession will reform in order that Leonor could succeed to her father, but supporting the position of the Prince of Asturias. Personally I believe that it is a question of State, and for the good of the State. The situation of the Monarchy in Spain, for historical known reasons, is not easy. If the Prince of Asturias takes some future one as a possible King, it is because he has been educated from child to be it, and because the people entrusts in that this education leads him to being a good Chief of State.
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  #157  
Old 11-11-2006, 07:13 PM
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The important thing in the spanish situation for the succession of... FELIPE, is that it's Felipe who was educated for to be the inheritor of his father and it's a right constitutional and since twenty years all his work is doing for this aim. It's a coherent action.

The coming of Letizia, as we can to see YET, reinforce this role with a great weight of efficacity.

The discussion about the succussion of Felipe until now is quiet an academic one because none of the politics hadn't the politic corage to do it.
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  #158  
Old 11-18-2006, 05:01 PM
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Is true... I think has more complicated is the new baby born is a boy...

I dont agree with Sabino because is Princess Letizia has a boy, in the order of preference has to the boy and how is tell is complicated and I think Infanta Leonor can reign and possibly can the other females in the family...

The S. 21 not want this because is discriminate with the woman, Queen Sofia has a good queen but she stay all time behind King Juan Carlos... Pass the same thing with Letizia... she has glamour and more better things to the Royal Family and I think she knowledge the family about the treatment with the prenses, about the speeches and other things...

I prefer the before Letizia not the after, she's not spontaneus and I dont like I prefer the treat of Princess Maxima and Princess Mary their was her not that the Royal Family what to do...
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  #159  
Old 11-18-2006, 05:19 PM
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I believe that I have repeated it often. In case of the Queen Sofia and of the Princess, the question is not that they are women. They occupy a secondary place, because they must occupy a secondary place. And in knowing it, there is the base of which they do a good work. They must never be over the King that is the Chief of the State, and of the Prince that is the future Chief of State. The Queen and the Princess do not work for them, work for the Monarchy and work for the State. They are the colitigants, and because of it they occupy a secondary place, since Jaime and Iñaki occupy it behind the Infantas.
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  #160  
Old 11-27-2006, 04:24 PM
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http://actualidad.terra.es/familia-r...on_1238832.htm

The man in charge of IU, Félix Taberna, stated today that the news on the new daughter of the Princes of Asturias shall not provoke 'false debates' around the reform of the Constitution, as far as succession is concerned. What must take place is an ample constitutional reform in all senses, in order to change the model in the Head of State.
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