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  #201  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by lilytornado View Post
I think it would be problem if Letizia had a boy that's why they are not having any more children and that's why they announced that Sofia was a girl even before she was born.
Right now Leonor will be queen one day - but only if she won't have a brother. With the current legal situation, the boy would be the heir. This would be unacceptable for a lot of people today in modern Spain. That's why they would have to change the law.
But if they changed the law so that the firstborn would be the heir regardless of gender, Elena would become Queen after her father's death not Felipe.
I think this is the whole problem. Felipe has been raised to be the heir not Elena so if they changed the law they would need to find a way to bypass Elena somehow.
That's not necessary that Elena would be Queen if they changed the law. They could do something along the lines of the Norwegian royal family. To bypass Elena, they could do what they did with Martha Louise. For the Norwegian Royal Family, they instituted the law in 1990 and stated that females born between 1971 (Martha Louise birth year) to 1990 would be given succession rights but their brothers would be placed before them in the line of succession. All females born after 1990 would be given equal succession rights, thus IA is Haakon's heir. In the case of the Spanish royal family, if they pass the law prior to Felipe being King (which I find unlikely) and I don't think they would make Elena the heir anyways. Felipe has been raised to be the crown prince since birth and I don't they think they would take that away from him. If a situation such as the above even arises then they can bypass Elena by passing a law similar to their Norwegian counterparts. They can choose a year arbitrarily after 1965 and state that all females born after that year get equal succession rights. Thus, Leonor can inherit even if she gets a brother and Elena is not in the picture.
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  #202  
Old 01-13-2010, 12:42 PM
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I doubt Elena will become Queen, If Letizia becomes pregnant with a boy I hope they change the law so that Leonor can become Queen.
As pdas1201 said they could put a system in place that says the new succesion laws only apply to girls born after a certain date.
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  #203  
Old 01-13-2010, 01:01 PM
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Well we need to clarify something.

Spanish Constitution will be reform sooner or later, no mater if Letizia and Felipe have a boy in the coming years, Leonor will be Queen.The succesion law will apply starting from the childs of the Prince of Asturias.
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  #204  
Old 01-13-2010, 04:10 PM
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That's exactly what I was saying. If they did that for Norway, they can do the same for Spain. Leonor has to and will become Queen.
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  #205  
Old 01-13-2010, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Paty View Post
Well we need to clarify something.

Spanish Constitution will be reform sooner or later, no mater if Letizia and Felipe have a boy in the coming years, Leonor will be Queen.The succesion law will apply starting from the childs of the Prince of Asturias.
This might be true but depending on the timing touching the existing constituition could add pressure on the institution itself. Why only change it and not abolish it alltogether. The SRF are not keen on forcing the constitution to change as this brings the whole matter of monarchy in Spain on the table, leading to a public discussion about sense or non-sense of the SRF, this could be a dangerous route to follow with unpredictable dynamics.

I have given the prediction in the pregnancy thread that Letizia & Felipe will not have another child for different reasons, the constitution being one (difficult pregnancies another one). Sofia jr. clearly tried for a boy to give some stability to the monarchy, times were different back then. If Letizia went down the same path and had a girl it would be considered as "failing", if she has a boy, it could put the whole system into jeopardy as preferring the boy according to the constitution would be seen as "old fashioned" or "sexist", robbing Leonor of her logical destiny. Therefore the present situation is quite ideal for everybody concerned, there is a heiress presumptive and a spare, no point in changing it for the sake of having an ever-expanding family.
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  #206  
Old 01-13-2010, 05:25 PM
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Yes, I agree in some parts with you Duke. The present situation is quite confortable for the Monarchy and also for the goverment, but considering that we are in the XXI century I think that the Spanish constitution will have to change sooner or later. May this won't happen in the present time but in the next future.
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  #207  
Old 01-14-2010, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Paty View Post
Yes, I agree in some parts with you Duke. The present situation is quite confortable for the Monarchy and also for the goverment, but considering that we are in the XXI century I think that the Spanish constitution will have to change sooner or later. May this won't happen in the present time but in the next future.
Yes I think the same Paty. If the SRF manage to survive the next 50 years and Leonor will finally become Queen I think the issue will in the meantime have been sorted for her successors. It's nothing that will voluntarily be done in the present situation unless the Asturias are really, really keen on having more kids and don't bother to create a difficult situation by producing a boy (as described in my previous post).
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  #208  
Old 01-16-2010, 08:03 AM
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I actually think that even if they changed the constitution Leonor will still be the Queen of Spain. I have this inkling that Europe will have a handful of Queens except for the future King Christian of Denmark, If I were a Spanish I would personally love to see a woman on the throne. Leonor's birth had been significant. I don't know but I really have a feeling that someday she will be her country's crown princess. I'm really hoping it will come true.
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  #209  
Old 01-16-2010, 08:47 AM
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Yes I think the same Paty. If the SRF manage to survive the next 50 years and Leonor will finally become Queen I think the issue will in the meantime have been sorted for her successors. It's nothing that will voluntarily be done in the present situation unless the Asturias are really, really keen on having more kids and don't bother to create a difficult situation by producing a boy (as described in my previous post).
I hope the SRF do survive the next 50 yrs !!
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  #210  
Old 01-19-2011, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
The baby will be An Infante of Spain.

And two more things.
How well it has explained someone in Spain there is no Law Sálica, but a preference of the man on the woman, if they had only girls the major girl would reign.
And since I see that someone also has extracted this horrible piece of gossip am going to clarify something. The girl about whom Ariel speaks is not illegitimate, since she has and always there has had a father who recognized her since she was born and that he was on the verge of marrying her mother.
But how the people have bad intention it likes to invent these things that they forbid more than the truths, and how the mother was a girlfriend of the Prince they wants to be placed, when their relation was doing more than 4 years that it had ended and both had or had had other relations. The people are very wicked and they do not see that they can damage to a girl. If the girl did not have father I might understand that this rumor existed, but a father is that this girl always has had. (That is not the Prince).
It is not a slur against the girl. The definition of illegitamite, whether royal or commoner, is a child born out of wedlock. Whether her father, not the prince, recognized her or not, the child was not born to married parents. Now if they really wanted to damage her they could call her the b word, but illegitamite is not a slander it is the technical truth.
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  #211  
Old 01-19-2011, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by xicamaluca View Post
In Spain men have prefence over women to ascend the Throne. CP Felipe is the younguest child of the King, but he´s the heir. The called Sallic Law. So, i belive, that is similar to GB.
No it is not called salic law, as has been repeated over and over again. Salic law states only a male can inherit, no female can take the throne, even in absence of a male heir. Spain is not salic, it is male preference.
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  #212  
Old 01-19-2011, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Lillia View Post
I wonder what the government would do if the CP Prince and Princess had more children and they were all girls? Would that mean a constitutional crisis for Spain?

Would the parliament expect the CP to keep having children until a boy would be born (like in Japan)? Japan is very traditional in their views also.

I don't understand the process so I'm just asking, not trying to offend anyone.:)
For heaven's sake what constitutional crisis? JAPAN IS SALIC, JAPAN DOES NOT ALLOW FEMALES TO INHERIT, HENCE THE PROBLEM.Spain is not salic, it allows queens to rule, always has. If the crown prince and princess have six daughters then they have six heirs. Where is the constitutional crisis please tell me, you confuse me.

The only thing, the only thing, they are trying to change is male preference. Right now if they had six daughters and then a son, the son would be heir. They are trying to change it to allow for that first of six daughters, instead of the son, to be heir.

NO CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS, GIRLS CAN INHERIT.
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  #213  
Old 01-19-2011, 02:35 AM
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If Spain doesn't change it's laws, it will be the only major European country (except Denmark, where it isn't an issue yet) to skip over girls and hand the crown to the boy. It seems backward, not traditional but almost uncivilized and unkind. There is just something disturbing about male primogeniture; everytime I think of Elena or Martha Louise of Norway I wonder if they feel angry, resentful or just unimportant.

The really great sovereigns have been female, Elizabeth I and Victoria.

I love the whole royal thing (who doesn't on this site?) but although male primogeniture is interesting, it's just wrong.
Denmark has now changed their law as well, so the UK and Spain are the only hold outs.
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  #214  
Old 02-23-2012, 12:33 PM
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what is said about this if the law is not changed who eill be king after felipe? Elenas son?
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  #215  
Old 02-23-2012, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Josefine View Post
what is said about this if the law is not changed who eill be king after felipe? Elenas son?
I don't think so, but I do think that the king Juan-Carlos is the opponent of equal primogeniture law, but the things may change. Anyway, it's their decision, but generally Letizia is still able to give birth to another child( though if it's a girl, Leonor should be considered the heiress to my view).
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  #216  
Old 02-23-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Josefine View Post
what is said about this if the law is not changed who eill be king after felipe? Elenas son?
After Felipe his eldest daughter is currently heiress to the throne unless Letizia gives birth to a son. Should that happen there would likely be a move in parliament to change the succession laws to first born regardless of gender succeeding to the throne.
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  #217  
Old 02-23-2012, 12:46 PM
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but how long would one whait until such law change
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  #218  
Old 02-23-2012, 01:28 PM
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Current Line of succession to the Spanish Throne

1.HRH The Prince of Asturias.
2. HRH Infanta Leonor
3. HRH Infanta Sofía
4.HRH Infanta Elena, Duchess of Lugo.
5.HE Don Felipe Juan Froilán de Marichalar y de Borbón.
6.HE Doña Victoria Federica de Marichalar y de Borbón.
7.HRH Infanta Cristina,Duchess of Palma de Mallorca.
8. HE Don Juan Urdangarín y de Borbón.
9.HE Don Pablo Urdangarín y de Borbón.
10.HE Don Miguel Urdangarín y de Borbón.
11.HE Doña Irene Urdangarín y de Borbón.
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  #219  
Old 02-23-2012, 02:51 PM
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but how long would one whait until such law change
Its a complicated process
from wikipedia (...) that requires (1) that two-thirds of each House approve the amendment, (2) that elections are called immediately thereafter, (3) that two-thirds of each new House approves the amendment, and (4) that the amendment is approved by the people in a referendum.

The Spanish monarchy runs the risk of being abolished when trying to change the constitution. I guess it was easier to be leave it with minimum request of two children (heir & spare) who happened to be girls instead of putting the institution to the test.
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