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  #441  
Old 02-09-2007, 01:55 PM
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Seeing all the pictures just breaks my heart. I sit here at my keyboard just crying for the family. I lost my brother through an accident and it is something that you never get over completely. God bless them and watch over them!
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Old 02-09-2007, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paty
At the end of the year 2003, when the Prince announce his enagemet with Leticia Ortiz, many people didn´t believed that Letizia had the necessary preparation to be a good Princess of Asturias and future Queen of Spain.
I wrote the following thing at those days:

"Letizia has the necessary conditions to be a great Princess of Asturias, the indispensable thing in the Future wife of the Prince is that her temperament, her quality humanizes,her tenacity and endurance, her aptitude to deal and to communicate with the most unlike people, are the best in a Future Queen."

I think that yesterday The Princess of Asturias demonstrated to all of us, her human quality.
For that, we must be to at her side in these moments of pain, because, i´m sure she will be ,undoubtedly, supporting to the Spanish people in their worse moments.

Today it is not the time to ask or discuss about what could happen to Érika Ortiz. Just its time to send a big embrace, full of hope and forces for Princess Letizia
BRAVO!!! VERY WELL SAID.......
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  #443  
Old 02-09-2007, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebafan81
Seeing all the pictures just breaks my heart. I sit here at my keyboard just crying for the family. I lost my brother through an accident and it is something that you never get over completely. God bless them and watch over them!
Sorry, this isn't about Erika, but I am so surprised at how many people on this forum have lost loved ones in sudden circumstances. My best friend died last year, she was only 17. I just want to give my best wishes to all people here at TRF who have experienced a situation such as this
  #444  
Old 02-09-2007, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily
Duncan, there seems to be some disagreement on this tradition.
Yes, I was mistaken (fortunately, I haven't attended a burial for a while). According to the decree below (not sure if it is the right one), Art. 21(1), the burial or cremation has to take place no sooner than 24 and no later than 48 hours after the death, except in the case of bodies that have been refrigerated or preserved.
http://www.personal.us.es/ambrosiani...gPolSanMor.pdf
  #445  
Old 02-09-2007, 02:35 PM
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I would like to belatedly add my condolences to Erika's family. It is very sad when someone so young dies, and leaves a small child behind as well.

It is difficult, and perhaps not appropriate, to comment on other people's lives, when one does not know much about them. However, I would have to say that anyone trying to heap blame on Letizia for any media coverage that Erika got is being unkind and unreasonable.

We all have to take responsibility for our own lives. L married the heir to the Spanish throne. There are downsides to this, meaning in particular that your life becomes public. Royal families both represent and reflect their people and their country - it was very brave of L to allow everyone to see her grief at the cremation. But it was right that she shared this with those who will be her future subjects. Even those of us from other countries can feel for her, and offer condolences and sympathy.

Not being a Catholic myself, I only see suicide as a terrible individual tragedy. But if there are religious implications for Catholics, I feel even more sympathy for the Ortiz Roscosolano family, and for the Royal Family.

Most of us wish to know what is happening out of sympathetic interest. I don't think we should berate ourselves for being voyeuristic. However, there is always a part of the media which tries to go too far in invading famous people's privacy.
  #446  
Old 02-09-2007, 02:42 PM
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Unhappy

Very well said, Alison. I think Letizia showed a lot of class and graciousness by speaking publically right after her sister's funeral, thanking everyone for their condolences. I'm sure her heart is on the ground right now but I think that small gesture of appreciation for the public's thoughts and prayers is really very sweet and noble. This is just so, so sad.
  #447  
Old 02-09-2007, 02:43 PM
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I thought that the family may have wanted a quick burial to get over the media burden as soon as possible. Then again, now I hear that a funeral is planned for the weekend.

Many people have expressed their pity for Letizia. May I also ask some thoughts for other members of the family like the mother, Paloma, the daughter, Paula, and her father, Antonio. Just because the royal family wasn't shown grieving with them doesn't mean they don't deserve our deep compassion.
  #448  
Old 02-09-2007, 02:50 PM
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According to the rules or not, I think it's good that the cremation took place just one day after everyone find out Erika had died. If it had taken place, let's say, 5 days after the death, every single day it would have been a topic no.1, with the shoots of Erika's parents or Carla going to school, speculations about the cause of death etc, and all of that till the funeral. And today, just one day after the cremation, just look at the portal pages of the on-line editions of the newspapers- if only the topic arrives, it's only a small pic of Leti in the right of left site of the page. Certainly the people will talk about it for a while, but at least it's not the issue no.1 in the media.
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  #449  
Old 02-09-2007, 02:57 PM
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For Catholics, suicide is a mortal sin as if you killed someone. I know this because I am catholic and my grandmother killed herself. I think it is a very serious thing to say and should be 100% confirmed, I dont think it has. Not only for the media coverage but for the own personal grief of the Ortiz family I think it was the best to do it quickly. "Wakes" I belive is the word in english are terrible for the mourners.
  #450  
Old 02-09-2007, 03:13 PM
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The biggest part of the grief is from Paloma and Carla, the mother and the daughter, for them it would be harder to get over this

My thoughts and prayers for both of them, the ones that suffer the most and the ones who can do it more privately

And yes, for us catholics, suicide is a mortal sin just like murder or abortion
  #451  
Old 02-09-2007, 03:31 PM
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Catholic Doctrine and Suicide

Avrilo -

This is the first time I have joined in a discussion at the Forum. I am sure I do so now persuaded by the terrible tragedy that has struck the Spanish Royal Family and Crown Princess Letizia's family. As to Roman Catholic doctrine and suicide, I found this stanza on wikipedia - which also includes a very telling section from 1997 on Modern Catholicism and its view of suicide.

Modern Catholicism
In Catholicism, death by suicide has been considered a grave and mortal sin. The chief Christian argument is that one's life is the property of God, and to destroy that life is to wrongly assert dominion over what is God's. This argument runs into a famous counter-argument by David Hume, who held that if it is wrong to take life when a person would naturally live, it must be wrong to save life when a person would naturally die, as this too seems to be contravening God's will. Some mitigation of this contrast may exist when examining the Catholic doctrine of extraordinary means: the Catholic Church teaches that there is no moral obligation for a person to chose extraordinary methods of saving one's life in the face of possible death.
In point 2281 of the Catechism it is stated:
2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.
[B][I]The 1997 Catechism of the Catholic Church indicates that suicide may not always be fully conscious – and thus not one-hundred-percent morally culpable: "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide."
The essential context regarding the Catholic Church's condemnation of suicide is the Church's absolute insistence on the sanctity of life. It is in this regard, and taking into account the clear deliberation of the act by a thinking person, that the Church regards suicide as being among the gravest sins a person may commit and therefore creating the risk of eternal damnation.
The gravity of the Church's position resides in a twofold argument - 1. Suicide is a rejection of God's love for mankind, and mankind's love for God. 2. Suicide causes fracture to the social community of friends, loved-ones and broader human society.


As a catholic myself, I simply hope that Erika is in peace now. An ex-boyfriend of mine, and who I stayed friends with, committed suicide some years ago by hanging himself. I wasn't in touch with him at the time, and other friends knew this before I did. None of them told me about it until after his burial and funeral. The sadness nearly broke my heart. But, those who do committ this final act alone are most likely suffering and in enduring pain (emotional - physical - or both) for some time. The only thought that comforted me after his suicide was to know that now he must be in peace, no longer suffering and no longer in pain. No disrespect to my catholic upbringing or the Church itself... this is simply something I must believe.

RIP Erika - and sincere sympathies to CP Letizia and her family.
  #452  
Old 02-09-2007, 03:42 PM
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I can't believe it was suicide. So she had written a bunch of letters to everyone, huh ? In a way that's good, but it's makes things even harder doesn't it? For Letizia, Jesus, Paloma, Telma and little Carla to read. Worst letter ever to read

I feel so sorry for Carla. I know this is absolutely none of my business, but suicide when you have a kid is almost unforgivable, isn't it? I prayed for the Ortiz's yesterday. I hope they're all feeling better, even though I know they arn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crisiñaki
The biggest part of the grief is from Paloma and Carla, the mother and the daughter, for them it would be harder to get over this
Absolutely .. I can't even imagine what these two must be going through. It's way to early for Carla to loose her mother, and Paloma should never go through the pain it is to loose one's daughter. Is there anything worse in this world, than loosing your child?

Once again,

Rest in Peace Erika Ortiz ..
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  #453  
Old 02-09-2007, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzling
pictures from ppe-agency

Letizia & Felipe 3
This picture is dramatical. She look so so so alone.

I do not want to chock, but to these pics, Felipe should be more supportive for her. He looked sad, lost, BUT he did not helped as he should. He should have taken her in his arms and help her walk, but NO.
She is gripped on him. but he could be more protective. When they are walking back to the car, he walks firs, he seems have forgotten that she is behind him.... in one moment she is half uncovered by his umbrella.
SORRY to shock you all, but i cried for her, I would expect Felipe to be stronger, but he looks absent.
  #454  
Old 02-09-2007, 03:48 PM
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Post Its so sad

I did post a note onb my blog alongside som photos of Erika and also the funeral. If yo would like to see it you just klick on the link.
It is in swedish but if you want to take a look at the pictures.

The World Of Mollyland - Sorg i det spanska kungahuset

R.I.P
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  #455  
Old 02-09-2007, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003
This picture is dramatical. She look so so so alone.

I do not want to chock, but to these pics, Felipe should be more supportive for her. He looked sad, lost, BUT he did not helped as he should. He should have taken her in his arms and help her walk, but NO.
She is gripped on him. but he could be more protective. When they are walking back to the car, he walks firs, he seems have forgotten that she is behind him.... in one moment she is half uncovered by his umbrella.
SORRY to shock you all, but i cried for her, I would expect Felipe to be stronger, but he looks absent.
i thought of the same, but then Felipe might have been in shock himself and not knowing what to do, or some people dont know what to do in such situations, we cant blame him.
  #456  
Old 02-09-2007, 03:50 PM
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On these photos it looks like. But we don't know what was his behavior inside palace.

It was terrible news for me. My deeply condolences for Letizia and her family.
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Old 02-09-2007, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnik
On these photos it looks like. But we don't know what was his behavior inside palace.

It was terrible news for me. My deeply condolences for Letizia and her family.
thats true. im sure he was and is supporting her.this is a difficult time for the whole family.
  #458  
Old 02-09-2007, 04:08 PM
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Farewell for Royal sister

MADRID Erika Ortiz, the youngest sister of Crown Princess Letizia of Spain, was cremated yesterday as investigations continued into the cause of her sudden death.
Ortiz, 31, who worked for a television production ...
read full article & source here

Funeral Is Held For Princess Letizia's Younger Sister

February 9, 2007 10:29 a.m. EST

Maira Oliveira - All Headline News Reporter
Madrid, Spain (BANG) - Spain's Crown Princess Letizia bid an emotional farewell to her younger sister at her funeral service on Thursday.
The princess was comforted by her ... read full article and source here

Details of Érika Ortiz death published in the media

Despite wishes expressed by the family for the outcome of the autopsy to be kept secret, the Spanish press is now carrying the details on the death.. read full article & source here

Reports: Preliminary autopsy results shows princess's sister died of overdose

MADRID, Spain: Preliminary autopsy results show the youngest sister of Spain's Crown Princess Letizia died of an overdose of pills, two leading Spanish newspapers said Friday.
Erika Ortiz was found dead ... read full article & source here
  #459  
Old 02-09-2007, 04:12 PM
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I think it is sweet how Letizia thanked the public for their support

Spanish royals grieve for princess's sister
February 10, 2007

MADRID: Spain's royal family gathered yesterday to comfort grief-stricken Crown Princess Letizia and her relatives at the cremation of her youngest sister, who was found dead in her Madrid apartment.

Letizia, who is expecting her second child, broke down in tears as she spoke briefly to reporters after leaving the funeral home a day after the death of her 31-year-old sister, Erika Ortiz.
Clinging to the arm of her husband, Crown Prince Felipe, Letizia said: "Thanks to all who have felt sadness over the death of my little sister."
King Juan Carlos, Princess ... read full article & source here
  #460  
Old 02-09-2007, 04:25 PM
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ANP Beeldbank
ANP Beeldbank

This Pics just broked my heart, oH poor Family
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