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  #381  
Old 02-09-2007, 03:39 AM
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Lula you seem to make a big deal about everything; not discourtesy intended, Lula, the fact that Erika commited suicide is knowing by now, you just have to read all what have being in the press till now, every single article appointed to that, some more subtle some more openly, for the ones who knows how to read and interpret a news; it is better if stated for once, that will help to stop sooner the gossips and not to have a month of speculations.

The suicide of a relative is nothing to be ashamed of, El Pais have gave the notice with absolute respect, besides the death of Erika have become in a national matter for being who she was, the Royal Family and Erika's family hasn't hide or anything, the only thing people need it was a confirmation because by now everyone knew already that Erika did commited suicide, was a "public secret", to unfortunate but is the truth, is going to be worse if they don't say nothing and everything stay in a kind of a limbo. If the cause of death would of being a natural one nobody will care if is published but there's a tabu with the suicide, as hard as it is that was her unfortunated choice and mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of, again, I can't underestand completely what make her to do this but she won't be less respected for her ultimate choice, it is better to stop the public morbo for once.
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  #382  
Old 02-09-2007, 03:51 AM
lula's Avatar
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Sincerely Raniarocks was not expecting for another thing from you.

1. There is no official news, and while this one does not exist, everything what is published or is said, limits itself to indications, speculations and gossips.

2. The family Ortiz-Rocasolano, with the exception of one member, is a private and anonymous family, which it has right to the intimacy and does not have any obligation, to give explanations to nobody. And the law protects them, if they decide that it should be deprived it will be private. And all this type of information or supposed filtrations can be a crime. They will take the decision, and will take the decision that they create good when they create good. And not to satisfy the zeal of gossip of the people, but for that one that they consider to be better for the family.
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  #383  
Old 02-09-2007, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
Pollyemma, from things people have written here, I think he's assumed that Erika Ortiz committed suicide and as good as blamed Princess Letizia for it because of her high profile and the stress it's caused her family.
This is completely disgusting for Letizia. She has her pain, and now these rubbish words.
If Erica committed suicide, it is her own decision, and nobody else is responsible
  #384  
Old 02-09-2007, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula
Sincerely Raniarocks was not expecting for another thing from you.

1. There is no official news, and while this one does not exist, everything what is published or is said, limits itself to indications, speculations and gossips.

2. The family Ortiz-Rocasolano, with the exception of one member, is a private and anonymous family, which it has right to the intimacy and does not have any obligation, to give explanations to nobody. And the law protects them, if they decide that it should be deprived it will be private. And all this type of information or supposed filtrations can be a crime.
Well Lula to me El Pais is a well respected newspaper and this death and funeral has being everything but private, I gave my condolences with sincerity some pages ago and everone knows that I'm not a fan of Letizia but I have being really touched for such a tragic loss and it just broke my heart to see the grievance of the family and Letizia's pain specially but as usually is pointless to make a point and believe that you may even dare to consider it.

Never mind.
  #385  
Old 02-09-2007, 04:47 AM
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BTW - does this mean that the spanish royal family will not go to Oslo for the celebration of King Harald's birthday?

  #386  
Old 02-09-2007, 04:53 AM
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I think the whole buniness is very sad, and to write such horriable things about the princess, is awfull , well to write about any one that way , at a time of family sadness is terriable !! .
  #387  
Old 02-09-2007, 05:16 AM
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I am really very sad for Letizia...but my respect goes to Paloma. Yesterday she was like away, not in this world, I can't think and can't imagine how much pain she has losing a daughter.
I didn't see this pain in his father or Menchu...maybe they demonstrate different, but for me yesterday, was horrible to see Paloma and Letizia.
All my respects for them. And also for Antonio Vigo, he was very very sad

What a tragedy ... I hope the girl that comes will survive all this pain that Letizia and her family has now.
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  #388  
Old 02-09-2007, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula
2. The family Ortiz-Rocasolano, with the exception of one member, is a private and anonymous family, which it has right to the intimacy and does not have any obligation, to give explanations to nobody. And the law protects them, if they decide that it should be deprived it will be private. And all this type of information or supposed filtrations can be a crime. They will take the decision, and will take the decision that they create good when they create good. And not to satisfy the zeal of gossip of the people, but for that one that they consider to be better for the family.
The family Ortiz-Rocasolano are not a private and anonymous family, they are the family of the Princess of Asturias so they are in the public eye! Everyone has the right to intimacy even Royal family, not only anonymous familys!!!! Of course this issue will be private because is not correct for a Royal family say that the sister of princess of Asturias has commited suicide, so they will keep it a secret of course!
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  #389  
Old 02-09-2007, 05:39 AM
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so many people commit suicide and leave the ones behind so helpless and full of guilt - as a cause of death, it should not be a big deal. How is suicide different from a death of cancer or so on? I personally think that everyone has the right to decise themselves, and there is no bad stigma about a suicide - of cause it is sad. NO doubt about it. what I am trying to say is that it is not throwing a dark shadow onto the rest of the family - at least not for me.
  #390  
Old 02-09-2007, 06:12 AM
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Hello

I'm greek othodox. According the the Greek orthodox religion, suicide is not accepted by the religion, I mean It is considered that if you killed yourself, you committed a murder. Consequently, if someone dies from suicide he is not allowed to receive a religious funeral.
IS THE SAME VALID FOR CATHOLICS? (Can someone reply?)
In this case it may provoque a problem because of the relation of Erica with the SRF.
  #391  
Old 02-09-2007, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily
While this does seem quick or 'hasty' to some of us, as I understand it from reading various boards, this is quite typical for Spain, Portugal and Malta. It reflects the continued Muslim influence
Allow me to disagree with regard to Spain. I would say that the Catholic tradition greatly prevails over the Muslim heritage, and the burial takes place after 3-4 days on average. It used to be costumary to prepare the body in order to be exposed so that friends and family could say farewell and veil it for some hours previous to burial, though in many cases this tradition isn't followed nowadays.

One detail that can be relevant is that, traditionally, the Catholic church doesn't allow a burial in the Catholic cemetery (non-Catholic cemeteries are a rarity) if the death has been caused by an act deemed to be a "mortal sin" by the deceased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lula
There is no official news, and while this one does not exist, everything what is published or is said, limits itself to indications, speculations and gossips.
I would bet there isn't going to be any official news from the royal house on this matter. On the one hand, as you say, family Ortiz-Rocasolano is a private family and the royal house has no obligation to report on them. On the other, as we all know from past experience, the royal house press service is very spare in the official news it releases; at most, it will issue a note of denial in case a false rumor has gone too far.

It's very stricking that El País should publish so openly certain leaks from the investigation. This newspaper is considered in many case the quasi-official voice of the present government and the royal house. For instance, it published the news that Leonor's umbilical chord was being preserved in Arizona facilities, which was readily confirmed by the royal house. In my opinion, most Spaniards would assume that any information published in this paper has the implicit approval of the royal house. The same goes for the news released by Antena 3 channel, a medium that usually follows a cautious and even laudatory treatment towards all things royal.

I hope I'm not offending anybody; if I went too far in my comments, please moderators feel free to delete this post or any other post I write.
  #392  
Old 02-09-2007, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biboquinhas
The family Ortiz-Rocasolano are not a private and anonymous family, they are the family of the Princess of Asturias so they are in the public eye! Everyone has the right to intimacy even Royal family, not only anonymous familys!!!! Of course this issue will be private because is not correct for a Royal family say that the sister of princess of Asturias has commited suicide, so they will keep it a secret of course!
It is not the Ortiz-Rocasolano family who married prince Felipe, it is one of his members.
And we are talking here of the death of the member of the family who liked the less being harassed by the medias.
  #393  
Old 02-09-2007, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003
Hello

I'm greek othodox. According the the Greek orthodox religion, suicide is not accepted by the religion, I mean It is considered that if you killed yourself, you committed a murder. Consequently, if someone dies from suicide he is not allowed to receive a religious funeral.
IS THE SAME VALID FOR CATHOLICS? (Can someone reply?)
In this case it may provoque a problem because of the relation of Erica with the SRF.
The Catholic Church considers in most of cases that suicide is a desperating gesture and that the person who committed it had not all her spirit faculties. So it became forgivable, because it is the result of an altered conscience.
  #394  
Old 02-09-2007, 06:34 AM
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There´s no official news because Érika was not part of the Royal Family. The results of the autopsy will be delivered to her family in two weeks, more or less and it´s up to them to tell the world what happened. But it´s a suicide. She killed herself by taking a huge amount of pills and some sources say she left some suicide notes to some people. Horrible. When I saw Princess Letizia speaking to the journalists and crying it broke my heart. I cried too. I´m truly shocked.

Something I believe is unforgivable is not to wait for Telma, her sister, to arrive in Spain before cremating Érika. She had the right to see her sister and hug her for the last time before the creamation. Horrible.
  #395  
Old 02-09-2007, 06:46 AM
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I'll repeat what others have said. If Erika did commit suicide, I hope that her family are not ashamed of it. I know it is hard to come to terms with for them but it's not something that should be kept secret by them for fear of what people might think.

I often read in stories in newspapers about men and women who have commited suicide. So if it is 'officially' stated that it was this, I hardly think the whole of Spain will spiral into crisis.

**I want to make it clear that I'm not saying that the family should release the cause of death.
  #396  
Old 02-09-2007, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ...sOfIa....
I'll repeat what others have said. If Erika did commit suicide, I hope that her family are not ashamed of it. I know it is hard to come to terms with for them but it's not something that should be kept secret by them for fear of what people might think.

I often read in stories in newspapers about men and women who have commited suicide. So if it is 'officially' stated that it was this, I hardly think the whole of Spain will spiral into crisis.

**I want to make it clear that I'm not saying that the family should release the cause of death.
I am 100% with you. I agree absolutely on what you say.
  #397  
Old 02-09-2007, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielane
The Catholic Church considers in most of cases that suicide is a desperating gesture and that the person who committed it had not all her spirit faculties. So it became forgivable, because it is the result of an altered conscience.
Thanks a lot for your reply.
  #398  
Old 02-09-2007, 07:22 AM
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I have enjoyed the forum for awhile with all the historal notes and the royal news you have posted.I am have the urge to say something in this regard, and this is my first post.

The media and talk shows try to analyze what causes Erika's depression. They are trying to suggest that part of her depression is because her sister is now the future queen, and the pressure of being Letizia's sister partly led to her death.

Two things I want to point out..
1) Each person is different, some are so sensitive that even slightly negativity post upon them would give them such grieve that majority of people would never experienced, nor understood.

2) The world is getting crueler by day, especially the media who makes a living talking about others on issues that are sensitive and should be respected, using the excuses that those people are public figures anyway.
Well, those public figures have feeling too. Where are kindness and compassion? they deserve those too.
  #399  
Old 02-09-2007, 07:42 AM
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I agree with you pamw they do deserve compassion and their privacy. Because Letezia married the prince does not make them any less private citizens.
  #400  
Old 02-09-2007, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Her_Majesty
ANP

ANP Beeldbank (Leti didn't forget about the protocol, even in this hard moment and bows to the King)
ANP Beeldbank
ANP Beeldbank
ANP Beeldbank

ANP Beeldbank
these are the saddest. most moving pictures ive seen of Letizia
the picture of Letizia bowing, seems like she cant bow well, seems like she is holding on to the King for support, but who can blame her. I hope things go smooth for her
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