Death of Erika Ortiz, Princess Letizia's Sister: February 7, 2007


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Catholic Doctrine and Suicide

Avrilo -

This is the first time I have joined in a discussion at the Forum. I am sure I do so now persuaded by the terrible tragedy that has struck the Spanish Royal Family and Crown Princess Letizia's family. As to Roman Catholic doctrine and suicide, I found this stanza on wikipedia - which also includes a very telling section from 1997 on Modern Catholicism and its view of suicide.

Modern Catholicism
In Catholicism, death by suicide has been considered a grave and mortal sin. The chief Christian argument is that one's life is the property of God, and to destroy that life is to wrongly assert dominion over what is God's. This argument runs into a famous counter-argument by David Hume, who held that if it is wrong to take life when a person would naturally live, it must be wrong to save life when a person would naturally die, as this too seems to be contravening God's will. Some mitigation of this contrast may exist when examining the Catholic doctrine of extraordinary means: the Catholic Church teaches that there is no moral obligation for a person to chose extraordinary methods of saving one's life in the face of possible death.
In point 2281 of the Catechism it is stated:
2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.
The 1997 Catechism of the Catholic Church indicates that suicide may not always be fully conscious – and thus not one-hundred-percent morally culpable: "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide."
The essential context regarding the Catholic Church's condemnation of suicide is the Church's absolute insistence on the sanctity of life. It is in this regard, and taking into account the clear deliberation of the act by a thinking person, that the Church regards suicide as being among the gravest sins a person may commit and therefore creating the risk of eternal damnation.
The gravity of the Church's position resides in a twofold argument - 1. Suicide is a rejection of God's love for mankind, and mankind's love for God. 2. Suicide causes fracture to the social community of friends, loved-ones and broader human society.


As a catholic myself, I simply hope that Erika is in peace now. An ex-boyfriend of mine, and who I stayed friends with, committed suicide some years ago by hanging himself. I wasn't in touch with him at the time, and other friends knew this before I did. None of them told me about it until after his burial and funeral. The sadness nearly broke my heart. But, those who do committ this final act alone are most likely suffering and in enduring pain (emotional - physical - or both) for some time. The only thought that comforted me after his suicide was to know that now he must be in peace, no longer suffering and no longer in pain. No disrespect to my catholic upbringing or the Church itself... this is simply something I must believe.

RIP Erika - and sincere sympathies to CP Letizia and her family.
 
I can't believe it was suicide. So she had written a bunch of letters to everyone, huh ? In a way that's good, but it's makes things even harder doesn't it? For Letizia, Jesus, Paloma, Telma and little Carla to read. Worst letter ever to read :cry:

I feel so sorry for Carla. I know this is absolutely none of my business, but suicide when you have a kid is almost unforgivable, isn't it? :sad: I prayed for the Ortiz's yesterday. I hope they're all feeling better, even though I know they arn't.

crisiñaki said:
The biggest part of the grief is from Paloma and Carla, the mother and the daughter, for them it would be harder to get over this:sad:
Absolutely .. I can't even imagine what these two must be going through. It's way to early for Carla to loose her mother, and Paloma should never go through the pain it is to loose one's daughter. Is there anything worse in this world, than loosing your child?

Once again,

Rest in Peace Erika Ortiz ..
 
dazzling said:

This picture is dramatical. She look so so so alone.

I do not want to chock, but to these pics, Felipe should be more supportive for her. He looked sad, lost, BUT he did not helped as he should. He should have taken her in his arms and help her walk, but NO.
She is gripped on him. but he could be more protective. When they are walking back to the car, he walks firs, he seems have forgotten that she is behind him.... in one moment she is half uncovered by his umbrella.
SORRY to shock you all, but i cried for her, I would expect Felipe to be stronger, but he looks absent.
 
fandesacs2003 said:
This picture is dramatical. She look so so so alone.

I do not want to chock, but to these pics, Felipe should be more supportive for her. He looked sad, lost, BUT he did not helped as he should. He should have taken her in his arms and help her walk, but NO.
She is gripped on him. but he could be more protective. When they are walking back to the car, he walks firs, he seems have forgotten that she is behind him.... in one moment she is half uncovered by his umbrella.
SORRY to shock you all, but i cried for her, I would expect Felipe to be stronger, but he looks absent.

i thought of the same, but then Felipe might have been in shock himself and not knowing what to do, or some people dont know what to do in such situations, we cant blame him.
 
On these photos it looks like. But we don't know what was his behavior inside palace.

It was terrible news for me. My deeply condolences for Letizia and her family.
 
magnik said:
On these photos it looks like. But we don't know what was his behavior inside palace.

It was terrible news for me. My deeply condolences for Letizia and her family.
thats true. im sure he was and is supporting her.this is a difficult time for the whole family.
 
Farewell for Royal sister

MADRID Erika Ortiz, the youngest sister of Crown Princess Letizia of Spain, was cremated yesterday as investigations continued into the cause of her sudden death.
Ortiz, 31, who worked for a television production ...
read full article & source here

Funeral Is Held For Princess Letizia's Younger Sister

February 9, 2007 10:29 a.m. EST

Maira Oliveira - All Headline News Reporter
Madrid, Spain (BANG) - Spain's Crown Princess Letizia bid an emotional farewell to her younger sister at her funeral service on Thursday.
The princess was comforted by her ... read full article and source here

Details of Érika Ortiz death published in the media

Despite wishes expressed by the family for the outcome of the autopsy to be kept secret, the Spanish press is now carrying the details on the death.. read full article & source here

Reports: Preliminary autopsy results shows princess's sister died of overdose

MADRID, Spain: Preliminary autopsy results show the youngest sister of Spain's Crown Princess Letizia died of an overdose of pills, two leading Spanish newspapers said Friday.
Erika Ortiz was found dead ... read full article & source here
 
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I think it is sweet how Letizia thanked the public for their support

Spanish royals grieve for princess's sister
February 10, 2007

MADRID: Spain's royal family gathered yesterday to comfort grief-stricken Crown Princess Letizia and her relatives at the cremation of her youngest sister, who was found dead in her Madrid apartment.

Letizia, who is expecting her second child, broke down in tears as she spoke briefly to reporters after leaving the funeral home a day after the death of her 31-year-old sister, Erika Ortiz.
Clinging to the arm of her husband, Crown Prince Felipe, Letizia said: "Thanks to all who have felt sadness over the death of my little sister."
King Juan Carlos, Princess ... read full article & source here
 
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dazzling said:
dont know, but papers have there ways on getting information, im not saying its true or anything like that. im pretty sure the International Herald Tribune paper is a relabile source
Sometimes even the relabile source can false...
 
Aww not the best of news I continue to pray fot the family and her daughter
 
magnik said:

They state the sources: the newspapers El País and El Mundo. Readers in Spain tend to treat whatever is published in El País as quasi-official news. That doesn't necessarily mean that those news are true, only that they reflect the "official" version. In this case, supposing they don't reflect the official (although not released) version, these details could have been denied by the royal house.
 
every personal opinion on what happened to erika is accepted, so i don't understand why some members are annoyed when they read opinions of people who think erika committed suicide. it's my opinion as well, and although we will probably never have an official version of what happened (neither do some of us think it would be correct, although would end up with the speculation and rumours) everyone is able to have their own thoughts about what happened to erika.

being objective, i cannot explain another reason for her death. EVEN when official statements weren't released or when they will never be, everyone can think and have an opinion about what happened. that's what we are here to discuss, our opinions, and i still can't believe how some people are annoyed or upset about it.
 
carlota said:
being objective, i cannot explain another reason for her death. EVEN when official statements weren't released or when they will never be, everyone can think and have an opinion about what happened. that's what we are here to discuss, our opinions, and i still can't believe how some people are annoyed or upset about it.

Well said carlota, I have to admit, my initial thought was that Erika had comitted suicide and of course that is simply my own opinion. However, the 'journalists' who are, in a round about way, blaming Letizia, have crossed the line in my opinion.
 
suicide or not is the question. we wont know till a later time or never know. but whether she did committe suicide or not, does not change the fact that she has passed away and left loved ones behind.what the family needs know is support of each other and what they dont need is different stories arising on how she past away.
 
fandesacs2003 said:
This picture is dramatical. She look so so so alone.

I do not want to chock, but to these pics, Felipe should be more supportive for her. He looked sad, lost, BUT he did not helped as he should. He should have taken her in his arms and help her walk, but NO.
She is gripped on him. but he could be more protective. When they are walking back to the car, he walks firs, he seems have forgotten that she is behind him.... in one moment she is half uncovered by his umbrella.
SORRY to shock you all, but i cried for her, I would expect Felipe to be stronger, but he looks absent.

Felipe was talking to the King in the above picture you mentioned.
http://www.ppe-agency.com/500px/Feb2007/07020859.jpg
On TV I saw them walking back to the car together, Felipe was holding the umbrella until seeing his wife getting into the car. Felipe had Paloma in his arm most of the time, Paloma was clearly the saddest person at yesterday's burial.
A video segment from CNN+ ELPAIS.com - Video: Despedida de Érika Ortiz - Videos - España
 
dazzling said:
i thought of the same, but then Felipe might have been in shock himself and not knowing what to do, or some people dont know what to do in such situations, we cant blame him.
Yeah, sure. We have a large amount of the pictures from yesterday, but in fact they ilustrate only (and thank God) the arrival of them all, greeting the King and the Infantas and the moment of leaving- all of it together lasted surely not more than 3-4 minutes so he simply didn't have time to show any more. But as for me he was very supportive, touching her hand and holding his arm around her waist, as we can see in the videos... He surely really looked (and now still is looking) after her at home or during the ceremony in the chapel.
 
Duncan said:
They state the sources: the newspapers El País and El Mundo. Readers in Spain tend to treat whatever is published in El País as quasi-official news. That doesn't necessarily mean that those news are true, only that they reflect the "official" version. In this case, supposing they don't reflect the official (although not released) version, these details could have been denied by the royal house.

I agree. El Pais has quite good working relation with the SRF, they had no reason to lie.
 
Yeah and besides El Pais is not a tabloid, is maybe one of the most serious and powerful newspapers of Spain and I don't think they'll publish something without the CR knowing about it
 
I just heard on Univision and Telemundo that Letizia's sister died of a heart attack as a result of an overdose of pills. The note also said that Erika left a few notes to her family.
 
fandesacs2003 said:
Hello

I'm greek othodox. According the the Greek orthodox religion, suicide is not accepted by the religion, I mean It is considered that if you killed yourself, you committed a murder. Consequently, if someone dies from suicide he is not allowed to receive a religious funeral.
IS THE SAME VALID FOR CATHOLICS? (Can someone reply?)
In this case it may provoque a problem because of the relation of Erica with the SRF.

I believe it's the same with Catholics. Suicide puts a person's soul into purgatory and endangers it. Althought the Church no longer bans having a person who commits suicide have funeral rites, it's still a big no-no.

Also, when someone commits suicide, they don't always leave goodbye letters behind. It's beside the point for Erika, now. May she rest in peace.

As far as the publicity, I for one don't think there's more attention being paid to what is happening versus the happy times that the royal family and their relatives have. It just happens to be a very tragic time for everyone involved. And people have to look at this from the standpoint of the individual culture to determine if this kind of attention is inappropriate or not. Heck, for my culture we take pictures of the dead in their casket; I'm sure someone who isn't familiar with that practice would think it was inappropriate. We should ask our Spanish members for their reaction to the attention being paid.
 
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The Catholic Church considers that a suicide represents a lack of faith (faith that God will save you and that however bad the situation you are in, it will get better wiht the help of God) Traditionally the Church did not grant a religious funeral for suicides. But in recent years they have come to accept factors such as mental health e.g. depression as attenuating circumstances and they grant the religious rites.
 
...sOfIa.... said:
I'll repeat what others have said. If Erika did commit suicide, I hope that her family are not ashamed of it. I know it is hard to come to terms with for them but it's not something that should be kept secret by them for fear of what people might think. :ermm:

I often read in stories in newspapers about men and women who have commited suicide. So if it is 'officially' stated that it was this, I hardly think the whole of Spain will spiral into crisis.

**I want to make it clear that I'm not saying that the family should release the cause of death. ;)

personally, i don't think that the family is ashamed of the fact that erika commited suicide. it's more like they didn't want to believe it themself. "how could our loved one be too depressed to stay alive? we all love her so much?"
 
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My heart goes out to Princess Letizia. I am one of three sisters as well and my prayers goes out to her.

We do not know officially the cause of death, but just a thought. I believe that anyone that does commit suicide are not well and we would never understand unless we were in that same situation that causes you take your own life.

One more thing that I would like to have everyone's opinion on.

When a middle class person marries into a royal household, it becomes a different life for the rest of this person's family. They have no protection and the press intrudes at all times. They could even be harmed or kidnapped. This seems to be a more modern problem as in past generations they only married among their own. We now have several Crown Princesses in this position. Someone did mention that in Princess Mathilde's case , her family was taken care of by the King and were given elevated status.
 
YanJP said:
personally, i don't think that the family is ashamed of the fact that erika commited suicide. it's more like they didn't want to believe it themself. "how could our loved one be too depressed to stay alive? we all love her so much?"

Oh I totally understand that. What I actually meant was ashamed of what people would think and say. As we have seen, there are some very ignorant people out there.

Then again when you are are family in that situation, the thought of people's opinions probably doesn't cross your mind. :ermm:
 
Since the forum is craving for official news, we just had some.

On the "social chronicle" program in Antena 3, half an hour ago, eight journalists are very angry at the serious press (El País, El Mundo) because they published things they (the "frivolous" journalists) chose not to say the other day. Now they all tell details they know (all of them speaking at the same time :p). One says that a photographer that was that morning near the door of Erika's building saw that a black Audi, similar to the one Felipe usually drives, abandoned the building before the corpse was removed, carrying four people.

One of the journalists leaves and returns with a piece of paper, a communicate from the press service of the royal house.

The document states three things:
(1) The prince didn't go to Erika's apartment that morning.
(2) Erika didn't belong to the royal family, nor to the family of the king.
(3) Until the final results of the autopsy are given to the family, the royal house press service sticks with the preliminary results, i.e., the cause of the death was a cardiorespiratory failure.
(Note: that is the cause of all deaths.)
 
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