What bothers you about Abdullah and Rania

[ZZZ]

I seem to have this crazy notion that dying means death, literally.
People all over Africa are dying, of starvation. Thats called dying.

i did not mean it in the litreal sense and that was obvious, but i have come accustomed to the nip/tuck kind of way when comments about rania and abdulla are at hand.

 

[ZZZ]

I might be wrong here but I think, what ZZZ means is that although it may not be 'dying' in the literal sense - It most certainly can't be called 'living'.

thats exactly what i mean, thank you.

 

[lizz70]

thats exactly what i mean, thank you.

You are welcome

 

[Humera]

lets see, when the earthquake hit pakistan, the gulf countries were the first to respond. the UAE alone sent a military field hospital for over 2months and took critical patients to the UAE. I recall england sending 9 rescuers, so why not, hatts off to the 9 rescuers and lets ignore a whole working field hospital.

take care of their citizens how, by making them pay their royals a percantage of their income, in order to supplement their lifestyles?? or by making them pay taxes?

its well known that the gulf, SA etc were prompted to act fast with the earthquake because they received so much criticism for not responding fast enough to the tsunami (and the earthquake has been bitterly neglected, there have "pledges" but no hard cash. The UN has been appealing for more for months. The US did the most to help and released the most money)Western nations poured in billions within hours of the tsunami whereas the gulf and other oil-rich nations were no where to be found for days.
You can still find the articles on the subject in the tsunami thread.

Taxes are part of governance, of democracy. They pay for social services that in turn help the citizens.
FYI....not all western nations are monarchies. Those that do choose to have them, the monarchs have no power and pay taxes themselves and have their expenses strictly controlled.

 

[Humera]

btw..thats all Im going to say on the subject. I wont be dragged into an unrelated argument. Apparently people who can go on and on about KA and QR's faults cant handle any critique of their own royals.

 

[Little_star]

"i said their people. not expats."

So that makes it ok for them to subject people to unsanitary, unsafe and downright horific treatment?
Clearly you take the idea of charity beginning at home very literally.

"lets see, when the earthquake hit pakistan, the gulf countries were the first to respond."
Not strictly true. Abdullah visited Pakistan the day after and the Jordanaian Family were already in the process of sending assistance. Prince rashid did an excellent job of helping with the aid and numerous supples that were sent, not to mention all the equipment. The UAE, Saudia Arabia and Kuwait were all a bit slow off the mark, although luckily not as bad as when the tsunami struck.

"take care of their citizens how, by making them pay their royals a percantage of their income, in order to supplement their lifestyles?? or by making them pay taxes?"
I think you'll find that's how most monarchies function.

 

[lizz70]

"i said their people. not expats."

So that makes it ok for them to subject people to unsanitary, unsafe and downright horific treatment?
Clearly you take the idea of charity beginning at home very literally.

"lets see, when the earthquake hit pakistan, the gulf countries were the first to respond."
Not strictly true. Abdullah visited Pakistan the day after and the Jordanaian Family were already in the process of sending assistance. Prince rashid did an excellent job of helping with the aid and numerous supples that were sent, not to mention all the equipment. The UAE, Saudia Arabia and Kuwait were all a bit slow off the mark, although luckily not as bad as when the tsunami struck.

"take care of their citizens how, by making them pay their royals a percantage of their income, in order to supplement their lifestyles?? or by making them pay taxes?"
I think you'll find that's how most monarchies function.

I agree that this is how most monarchies work but also, I think there are a fair few people who do actually resent their taxes going to pay for royals and extravagant lifestyles, especially when a lot of these people are very rich as independent ctizens in the first place.

 

[Little_star]

"I agree that this is how most monarchies work but also, I think there are a fair few people who do actually resent their taxes going to pay for royals and extravagant lifestyles, especially when a lot of these people are very rich as independent ctizens in the first place."

True, but then that's not a Jordanian phenomenon. After all every time the British Royal Family's expenses are announced you will always hear people complaining about the cost and demanding changes. The same thing happened when King Moammed VI's spending habits were revealed. It's just part and parcel of being in a country with a Royal Family and in many way a good argument for abolishing monarchies all togther.

 

[lizz70]

"I agree that this is how most monarchies work but also, I think there are a fair few people who do actually resent their taxes going to pay for royals and extravagant lifestyles, especially when a lot of these people are very rich as independent ctizens in the first place."

True, but then that's not a Jordanian phenomenon. After all every time the British Royal Family's expenses are announced you will always hear people complaining about the cost and demanding changes. The same thing happened when King Moammed VI's spending habits were revealed. It's just part and parcel of being in a country with a Royal Family and in many way a good argument for abolishing monarchies all togther.

I should say! I was disgusted when I found out about some of the spending habits and what enormous sums of money were being spent on what can only be described as personal indulgences!!! Nothing to do with diplomacy or serving the state etc.

 

[Laraib]

Do Jordan people respect America along with the rest of MiddleEast, so how can their govenment officials endorse Amercianized culture?Remember the 2006 greeting card?Why was QUEEN of JORDAN dressed in American clothes along with her kids?How is the rest of the Jordan suppose to embrace their culture when their own queen is walking around with Gucci bags?How can Americans respect Jordanian culture when your own queen gives the wrong impression of the Jordan culture?The fact that Rania is walking around in Armani dresses sends a wrong message to the average American public. When they see a queen dressed in that way they question the rest of the Muslim population who wears hijab or anything else related to Islam. They don't know which one is Islam and who is who.No offense.

 

[lizz70]

Do Jordan people respect America along with the rest of MiddleEast, so how can their govenment officials endorse Amercianized culture?Remember the 2006 greeting card?Why was QUEEN of JORDAN dressed in American clothes along with her kids?How is the rest of the Jordan suppose to embrace their culture when their own queen is walking around with Gucci bags?How can Americans respect Jordanian culture when your own queen gives the wrong impression of the Jordan culture?The fact that Rania is walking around in Armani dresses sends a wrong message to the average American public. When they see a queen dressed in that way they question the rest of the Muslim population who wears hijab or anything else related to Islam. They don't know which one is Islam and who is who.No offense.

Rania seems to want to portray a westernized, watered down version of what an Arab or Muslim is - sort of 'Arab Lite', perfect for mass consumption in the US and the West. Of course, no sane person advocates violence in any form and I am not suggesting she has to be a supporter of a particular cause in order to 'prove' her credentials, but it does appear that an awful lot of people don't like it when she appears to speak for them and to present a certain type of image that isn't strictly true in all quarters. perhaps some cultural sensitivity from QR when she claims to represent all Muslims???

 

[monamona]

Rania seems to want to portray a westernized, watered down version of what an Arab or Muslim is - sort of 'Arab Lite', perfect for mass consumption in the US and the West. Of course, no sane person advocates violence in any form and I am not suggesting she has to be a supporter of a particular cause in order to 'prove' her credentials, but it does appear that an awful lot of people don't like it when she appears to speak for them and to present a certain type of image that isn't strictly true in all quarters. perhaps some cultural sensitivity from QR when she claims to represent all Muslims???

She does that alot.
She appoints herself and allows herself to speak on behalf of muslims and arabs. Having the same ethnical and religious backgrounds as hers, i certainly do not allow her to speak on my behalf. Even if she were the queen of my country, i do not think i would want her to say things that indirectly refer to me. May be other people feel the same way . Being a public figure, she has to be careful about that.

Also, most of the articles that some people refer to when talking about this couple are mosty in English. you guys are missing ALOT as there are some revealing articles in ARABIC written by people from the Region... . Of course, only those who are from the region or had lived some time in Jordan can judge these Arabic articles as they have already a first hand knowledge of what is going in Jordan (in the ground)..

PS: i love some of her ELIE SAAB'S gowns

 

[madonna23]

Yes, Monamona - I agree that we are only getting one side of the view by reading only English articles.

Plus, just because some members who say they are JOrdanian say they agree with Abdullah and Rania does not imply that this is really the case. The forum has a selective bias built into it - those who already admire the monarchy come up and post. Those who don't either don't visit the forums or visit other forums - i.e. forumforfree or jewels of arabia - where full-fledge discussions are allowed and encouraged. At these forums, many members who say they are JOrdanian say they do not agree with Abdullah and Rania.

 

[Alexandria]

Plus, just because some members who say they are JOrdanian say they agree with Abdullah and Rania does not imply that this is really the case. The forum has a selective bias built into it - those who already admire the monarchy come up and post. Those who don't either don't visit the forums or visit other forums - i.e. forumforfree or jewels of arabia - where full-fledge discussions are allowed and encouraged. At these forums, many members who say they are JOrdanian say they do not agree with Abdullah and Rania.

Every forum has its own "niche" and serves its own purpose. If one forum was perfect for everybody, then there wouldn't be a need for several dozen forums that discuss royals on varying levels.

That being said, just because the views expressed here are not to your liking is not to say that full-fledge discussions are not allowed. The last time we allowed full-fledge discussion here, there were posts that equated Princess Haya with animals and beasts and resulted in the entire Jordanian forum being closed. I don't think that is what members want to happen again.

Discussions are allowed on the basis of the rules we've set up. If you don't like the rules then you can go elsewhere where the rules are more to your liking.

And if there appears to be a bias, it's not because members who like Abdullah and Rania post more frequently. Nothing is stopping those who dislike Abdullah and Rania from posting -- so long as they don't violate the rules. And far too often, especially in the Jordanian forum, members who dislike Abdullah and Rania are uncivil and mean-spirited in their comments. If members could only post their criticisms of this couple in language that is not offensive there would probably be a more interesting discussion.

 

[madonna23]

Right - but those who don't agree often don't use appropriate language and therefore they go to these other forums where there are not as strict rules.

i'm not disagreeing with any of the rules here - i'm just pointing out that the jordanian's who do post here cannot be used an accurate gauge of jordanian public opinion because they are a very selective minority. i want to show that other forums - who also represent selective minorities - offer different views.

that being said, i think the best way to gauge opinion from the internet is to visit all these forums because, as you said each has its own niche and purpose - and form your own opinion based on that. you can't just look at this forum or at the other forums - who may be too biased against the monarchy - you have to look at it all.

anyway - i don't dislike the rules and it's unfortunate if my post came across that way.

 

[Monalisa]

Very good idea of thread citizen 2005.
What bother me about KA&QR

*The obsession about their image.
*They are everywhere in magazines and different medias.
*They travel very often,imo it makes them less credible,as somebody stated before,they seem more like people from jet-set and not like ruling royals,since they become king and queen no royals come to visit them in an official visit.
*The image that they give or that they want to give doesn't reflect the reality of their country, they should be in representation and not in presentation.
*There's no synchronisation between what they preach and what it's done in reality.
*I should add about QR that she wants to be everywhere and to give the image of the hardworking modern queen,but this makes her work without any substence and results,it would be better if she'd focused in one or two issues rather than being spoiled between many without any results.

 

[madonna23]

okay i've gotten used to seeing rania in all these mags, so it doesn't both me so much anymore.

but what i can't understand is (1) why do her kids have to pose? and especially (2) what in the world was Abdullah doing posing in that Vogue or Vanity Fair magazine? yikes! that was absolutley horrid. a head of state should never pose in such magazines. especially while they are still ruling.

 

[Monalisa]

okay i've gotten used to seeing rania in all these mags, so it doesn't both me so much anymore.

but what i can't understand is (1) why do her kids have to pose? and especially (2) what in the world was Abdullah doing posing in that Vogue or Vanity Fair magazine? yikes! that was absolutley horrid. a head of state should never pose in such magazines. especially while they are still ruling.

And she keeps saying that they never talk with their son hussein about who would be the future king,the kid doesn't ask why he have to pose in those magazines?and who is he to do that,didn't she say that imposing to a kid to be a crown prince is a viloence to his rights and to his childhood,? I believe her when she said that they are a normal falimy !!!normal families don't pose all the time and everywhere ,in western world,when some leaders or even celebrities pose,the face of their children is hidden.

 

[Mahoogie]

I am not bothered with King Abdullah and Queen Rania although there are people who criticize them..I think we cannot stop criticism, its part of the life of public figures..KA and QR are my favorite royal couple and I like their cute and young family..

 

[lizz70]

And she keeps saying that they never talk with their son hussein about who would be the future king,the kid doesn't ask why he have to pose in those magazines?and who is he to do that,didn't she say that imposing to a kid to be a crown prince is a viloence to his rights and to his childhood,? I believe her when she said that they are a normal falimy !!!normal families don't pose all the time and everywhere ,in western world,when some leaders or even celebrities pose,the face of their children is hidden.

Only time will tell about their plans for the succession.........

 

[nayeli0016]

Do you guys think that with the possibility of KA's son being the crown prince, the tension between KA and Queen would build up?

 

[Laraib]

And she keeps saying that they never talk with their son hussein about who would be the future king,the kid doesn't ask why he have to pose in those magazines?and who is he to do that,didn't she say that imposing to a kid to be a crown prince is a viloence to his rights and to his childhood,? I believe her when she said that they are a normal falimy !!!normal families don't pose all the time and everywhere ,in western world,when some leaders or even celebrities pose,the face of their children is hidden.

That should tell everyone how desperate the Queen and the King are for press and attention in the western world.

 

[Little_star]

"Remember the 2006 greeting card?Why was QUEEN of JORDAN dressed in American clothes along with her kids?"

As do millions of other Arab women. And what exactly are "American clothes"? Are you refering to designer labels, becuase dresses and skirts weren't created by the Americans.......

"When they see a queen dressed in that way they question the rest of the Muslim population who wears hijab or anything else related to Islam. They don't know which one is Islam and who is who.No offense."
So they should. Women who wear hijabs do so through choice.

 

[Little_star]

"perhaps some cultural sensitivity from QR when she claims to represent all Muslims???"

When has she doen that? I can't recall her saying she spoke for all muslims? And personally I'd rather be represented by Queen Rania than an Iranian Ayatollah or an Afghan Mullah.

 

[lizz70]

"perhaps some cultural sensitivity from QR when she claims to represent all Muslims???"

When has she doen that? I can't recall her saying she spoke for all muslims? And personally I'd rather be represented by Queen Rania than an Iranian Ayatollah or an Afghan Mullah.

Little Star, you are splitting hairs again and trying to pick apart people's opinions on such minor points of verbiage. I should say she gives the IMPRESSION that when she speaks about Islam, that she is representative of all Muslims and Arab women when this is simply not so. Whether people like it or not, there are as many different shades of opinion in the Arab world and Muslim world as there is anywhere else. I was pointing out that there are people out there who don't like the image she portrays or that it is marketed at the West, a more palatable form of Islam, especially in the US - this is not to say that these same people are followers of Ayatollah's (which would mean one would have to be Shia when QR and a lot of the Muslims in the Levent are Sunni) or avid supporters of the Taliban either. I think that a lot of people are getting fed up with being told how to think, feel and pray by the USand it annoys them when QR echoes US views. Islam was a tolerant religion well before the likes of QR popped up to give her take on it.

 

[Warren]

Little Star, you are splitting hairs again and trying to pick apart people's opinions on such minor points of verbiage. I should say she gives the IMPRESSION that when she speaks about Islam, that she is representative of all Muslims and Arab women when this is simply not so.

From a very distant Australian perspective I have never been given the impression that Rania speaks as a "representative of all Muslims and Arab women".
The impression has always been that Queen Rania, as with Queen Noor, is a representative of Jordan. No more, no less.

 

[lizz70]

Well Warren, that is your opinion but in my circle, plenty of people feel QR speaks that way and there are others on this forum who feel like this too.

 

[Little_star]

"The impression has always been that Queen Rania, as with Queen Noor, is a representative of Jordan. No more, no less."

True, but then I'd go further and say that in most events she often makes a clear point of indicating she is speaking for herself.

" I was pointing out that there are people out there who don't like the image she portrays or that it is marketed at the West, a more palatable form of Islam, especially in the US "

Give me a more "palatable" form of Islam any day over suicide bombings, terrorist groups, bigoted viewpoints regarding human rights and women any day.
Thank goodness that there muslims out there like Queen Rania, Asma Jehanghir and many others.

" I think that a lot of people are getting fed up with being told how to think, feel and pray by the USand it annoys them when QR echoes US views"
So she should be echoing Saudi views then? That would be better? That sounds more than a little silly.

"Islam was a tolerant religion well before the likes of QR popped up to give her take on it."
Funny that, because if you ask the average non-muslim (and plenty of muslims) these days what they think of Islam tolerance isn't their primary answer. Unsurprisingly.

 

[ZZZ]

why is rania's name - rania al abdulla?? it use to be rania yassin. rarely do arabs change their name and when they do, it is to the husbands family name (last name) not their given name. why does she try and make her name sound more aristrocratic with the "al" befoe the abdulla.

 

[lizz70]

Give me a more "palatable" form of Islam any day over suicide bombings, terrorist groups, bigoted viewpoints regarding human rights and women any day.
Thank goodness that there muslims out there like Queen Rania, Asma Jehanghir and many others.

So, yet AGAIN, back to the stereotyping of Muslims as suicide bombers/religious extremists etc if they do not subscribe to a particular point of view. NOT a very intelligent argument I am afraid.

" I think that a lot of people are getting fed up with being told how to think, feel and pray by the USand it annoys them when QR echoes US views"
So she should be echoing Saudi views then? That would be better? That sounds more than a little silly.

EXCUSE ME!!!!???? Did I say that if one does not support QR's views then one must therefore be an advocate of Wahabism????? Now that is an assertion that sounds silly. Islam encompasses many shades of opinion, not only one whether it be QR's or Wahabism - which by the way, I do not subscribe to.

"Islam was a tolerant religion well before the likes of QR popped up to give her take on it."
Funny that, because if you ask the average non-muslim (and plenty of muslims) these days what they think of Islam tolerance isn't their primary answer. Unsurprisingly.

Again, back to religious stereotyping! Islam is a tolerant religion as is demonstrateed everyday by millions of Muslim men, women and children who go about their daily business peacefully and doing their best to be good people. It shows itself to be tolerant in countless ways historically and in present day. It is men that corrupt not the religion of Islam.