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  #481  
Old 06-27-2005, 10:12 AM
Heir Apparent
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julial
QR is already a Doctor.
What is she a doctor of? This is the first I've ever heard of Rania being a doctor.

Do you mean that she was granted an honourary degree at some university and is now a doctor in that sense? Or did she get a medical degree that I've never heard of?
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  #482  
Old 06-27-2005, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star
Rania is an ideal Queen.
She has raised the proifle of her country in a way that others have failed to. Moreover she has raised he voices of Arab women and muslim women, more so than any other female Arab. This is not a woman born into a life of luxury, she is from a typical middle-class household. She is "normal" in every sense.
So she wears expensive clothing,that's part of the job. Does anyone think she actually has to pay for them. She probably is given the majoirty by designers. After all which other woman in the Middle East is so well watched?
Kudos to her, may she continue her good work.
I second that! Back in the 70s Queen Alia was dressesd by the best designers Valentino, Queen Noor mentioned it in her book (Leap of Faith), and he dressed Queen Noor as well.
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  #483  
Old 06-27-2005, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julial
QR is already a Doctor?
according to the information given in her official web site she only has a BS degree in business.if she held a doctorate degree she would have mentioned it.
  #484  
Old 06-27-2005, 05:12 PM
julial's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
What is she a doctor of? This is the first I've ever heard of Rania being a doctor.

Do you mean that she was granted an honourary degree at some university and is now a doctor in that sense? Or did she get a medical degree that I've never heard of?
she was granted an honourary degree from at least one university and is now a doctor.
  #485  
Old 06-27-2005, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julial
she was granted an honourary degree from at least one university and is now a doctor.
To be fair and to give credit to those who have spent seven or eight years (or more) in actual medical school and are real doctors, Rania is not a doctor in this sense. It is an honourary degree for a reason -- it is bestowed on a recognizable or famous individual to bring attention to a university or college and sometimes to recognize the life achievements of the individual getting such an award.

Plenty of famous people have been given honourary degrees at many famous education institutions but no one goes around calling them Doctor or considers them such. Canadian comedian (of Austin Powers fame) has been granted an honourary degree but no one goes around (nor does he request) taht anyone call him Dr. Mike Meyers. Queen Elizabeth II must have dozens of honorary degrees by now but no one is trumpeting her as Dr. Elizabeth.

It would be much better to give Rania credit for work she actually did, rather than just honouring her because she is the Queen of Jordan. If you removed the title of Queen of Jordan from her, and she were merely another Jordanian citizen, would she still have been bestowed such an honorary degree? And would she be considered a "Doctor" in that sense?
  #486  
Old 06-27-2005, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
It would be much better to give Rania credit for work she actually did, rather than just honouring her because she is the Queen of Jordan. If you removed the title of Queen of Jordan from her, and she were merely another Jordanian citizen, would she still have been bestowed such an honorary degree? And would she be considered a "Doctor" in that sense?
The issue isn't "cut and dry" so to speak. Rania does the work that she does because she is the Queen of Jordan and the work that she does is for the most part expected of her. Thus an honorary doctorate awarded to Rania commends the work she has done as Queen of Jordan. One cannot really seperate the two, if you get what I mean.
  #487  
Old 07-04-2005, 02:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa
In general she is a very well dressed woman with an expensive clothing budget, but she is clearly a woman with substance.


Yes, she is a woman with substance despite what others would have us to believe. I don't buy for one second that she feels inferior, and that's why she wants to look nice. It's sad really how some dismiss her accomplishments just because she is a well dressed woman. I could understand this argument if the only thing she did was wear designer clothing, and there was nothing more to her than her looks but there is much more to Rania than that. You don't have to search long and hard to see what she has done since becoming Queen.
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  #488  
Old 07-04-2005, 05:13 AM
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The World Economic Forum is an ultraliberal movement. I don't understand how can a queen of a third world shares their ideas. Whatever they do is always against the poor countries and Africa (where she never goes contrary to all european princess, especially Mathilde). She imagines she is strong enough to change their mind, but she is just their political alibi. I hope one day she will understand and join Porto Alegre forum.
  #489  
Old 07-04-2005, 08:08 PM
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Reina, you make an interesting point. I honestly don't know. I think she has to walk a fine line here but she is trying to bring attention to the issue--and that in itself is a contribution toward hopefully stopping it one day.

QR is between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, she must balance the sensitivities of those who live in Jordan; on the other, she has to appear westernized in order to get the attention, interest and funding for issues affecting the country from western nations. Maybe it's my imagination but I'm seeing less "glitz" in terms of attire since the birth of Prince Hashem. She seems more purposeful and focused on portraying a substantive image.

I'd read an interesting quote in the Vanity Fair article on Queen Rania in 2001; something to the effect she is able to be an activist Queen because of QN's setting the stage by also being an activist Queen but she "has even more power because of her relationship with her husband." I've read it a number of times and it implies her relationship with KA is seen as much more of a partnership than the one QN and KH had. And it's also an excellent observation that Rania married a man who was a "long shot" to become King one day. When she says it was a huge change and something they were not immediately prepared for, one has to believe her. Because back in the 90's when they married, every indication pointed toward KH being succeeded by then Crown Prince Hassan. So the learning curve had to be enormous. It's to her credit she has learned to endure all the scrutiny and appears so poised with international leaders and the wide variety of groups she now interacts with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
But the JRF still needs support from the bedoins who probably commit honor killings. Do you think she is trying to be careful to keep their support, so that is why she is not addressing this issue?

But I agree with you all. I think she is doing a good job. Sure I have had my share of negative comments, but I have grown up a bit from my PHamzah crush days. Anyway it is nice to go on from old times and go on with the new. But I hope PHashim has a prominent role in thr royal family. He is working so hard.:o :)
  #490  
Old 07-04-2005, 08:51 PM
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I agree Maryshanw. I don't think she was looking to b/c Queen. I think she was happy and honored to b/c a Princess. From commoner to a member of the JRF, that was seen as the good life.
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  #491  
Old 07-05-2005, 01:31 AM
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Hi there,

Since we’re currently on the subject, here’s a little info on honor killings (just to clear up some misconceptions).

Definition: When a man attacks and kills a female relative of his (using the “heat of passion” defense), whose indiscretions or misfortunes (i.e. alleged pre-marital relations, adultery or rape) have brought shame onto (some of) her family members.

Non-Islamic and/or non-Middle Eastern origins - (practiced in):

Ancient Babylon (1700 BCE) – The Codes of Hammurabi (one of the earliest set of laws discovered) focus on the idea of how a woman’s virginity belongs to her family.

Peru (1200 BCE – 1532 ACE) – Alleged adulterers were punished by having their hands and feet tied to a wall and being left to starve to death. A man was allowed to kill his wife if he caught or suspected her of having an extra-marital affair, while if a woman caught or suspected her husband of doing the same thing and killed him, she was given the death penalty.

The Valley of Mexico (150 BCE –1521 ACE) – The punishment for female adultery was death by stoning or strangulation (only after a husband could prove the offence).

Ancient Rome – If a woman was caught having an extra-marital affair by her husband he was allowed to kill her, while she wasn’t allowed to lay a finger on him if she caught him in the process of committing the exact same “activity”.

Some past Jewish and Christian individuals/states – interpreted their scriptures as to prescribing death by punishment for alleged pre-marital relations and adultery.

Different countries in which honor killings are presently practiced to a certain extent:

(In parts of) Bangladesh, Brazil, Ecuador, Egypt, Great Britain, India, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Pakistan, Morocco, Sweden, Turkey and Uganda.

I would argue that individual non-“Muslim” men/women living within North America or any other region/country, whether or not its mentioned above commit (types of) honor killings (in reference to women) in this day and age as well, in order to “untarnish their dignity/reputations” after they find out that their spouse is having an adulterous affair. I can’t imagine how many stories I’ve heard of this type of activity taking place in especially parts of North America (i.e. when a man takes a shot gun and goes after his wife and sometimes even his own children or when a woman drives a car over her husband: after becoming aware of their mate’s extra-marital affair and killing them in the process).

The men (and sometimes women) who commit them: come from diverse national, ethnic and cultural backgrounds and/or associate themselves as followers of different religions. In especially some economically developing countries, they usually come from “lower” socio-economic backgrounds (not to say that “all” financially poor individuals are violent in that sense), although there are a few exceptions and at times a middle-class or upper-class male could very well commit the act as well.

So in conclusion, honor killings are and have been practiced by individuals of especially different national, ethnic, cultural and/or so-called religious backgrounds presently as well as all throughout history (especially going back 2000 years). So honor killings are not: geographically confined to parts of Jordan, acts primarily carried out by some Jordanian citizens (or even “all” Bedouins for that matter), nor are they an Islamic practice in general. The Quran literally states that both a man and woman are not given the death penalty as a punishment for committing adultery (especially considering that specific verses speak of who an adulterer/adulteress should or should not be allowed to marry, which would ultimately mean that they would have to be “alive” in order to marry or not marry someone). In fact the Quran says that if accused of committing adultery, a woman must stand up for herself in court and if she states that she did not commit the act, then the court officials have no other choice but to take her for her word and she’s basically spared of a punishment. Some believe that the same method (in regards to the Quran) is carried out in reference to allegations of pre-marital sex as well.

And yes I agree, any royal and/or politician should attempt to abolish this practice, regardless of who commits it or which country it takes place in.

I got much of my info on this post from the following link:

The Biological Roots of Heat-of-Passion Crimes and Honor Killings
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  #492  
Old 07-05-2005, 01:46 AM
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Can't there be honor killings against men to? like in umm more delicate situations?
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  #493  
Old 07-05-2005, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovy_bear
I would argue that individual non-“Muslim” men/women living within North America or any other region/country, whether or not its mentioned above commit (types of) honor killings (in reference to women) in this day and age as well, in order to “untarnish their dignity/reputations” after they find out that their spouse is having an adulterous affair. I can’t imagine how many stories I’ve heard of this type of activity taking place in especially parts of North America (i.e. when a man takes a shot gun and goes after his wife and sometimes even his own children or when a woman drives a car over her husband: after becoming aware of their mate’s extra-marital affair and killing them in the process).
Well, this is one Web site's point of view. But the problem with "honor" killings (vs. crimes of passion) is that the perpetrators are protected from being punished as ordinary murderers by penal code articles that get them off the hook. And, sorry, you just cannot correctly claim that that is what happens to people in North American countries who commit these crimes. They are punished, socially and criminally. They are not protected by penal code articles, and they most certainly are not celebrated as home town heroes.
  #494  
Old 07-05-2005, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
Can't there be honor killings against men to?
Yes. There were at least two in Jordan in 2004.
  #495  
Old 07-05-2005, 02:15 AM
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Honor killings do happen in N. America. But it is certainly not what the site from post 55 says. That is called murder!
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  #496  
Old 07-05-2005, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
Honor killings do happen in N. America. But it is certainly not what the site from post 55 says. That is called murder!
I have to agree with Reina. Honor killings do happen in the Western World,too. It is a global promblem. Unfortunately the US is trying to make people believe that there is only in the Arab World in order to denigrate the Muslim people. It is sad how many people believe the US government's lies. There are honor killings everywhere in N. america, Europe , Australia and so on . I hear almost every week that European or American man killed his wife and children. Anyway honor killings often happen to Christian people as well. But that is called murder in the Western World as Reina said.
  #497  
Old 07-05-2005, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilah
I have to agree with Reina. Honor killings do happen in the Western World,too. It is a global promblem. Unfortunately the US is trying to make people believe that there is only in the Arab World in order to denigrate the Muslim people. It is sad how many people believe the US government's lies. There are honor killings everywhere in N. america, Europe , Australia and so on . I hear almost every week that European or American man killed his wife and children. Anyway honor killings often happen to Christian people as well. But that is called murder in the Western World as Reina said.
Excuse me--they may happen here but the murderers get punished---no one here is allowed to murder women just because they are women, and that happens in the Muslim world every day. And Christianity certainly does not teach this as Islam does. What lies are you referring to?
  #498  
Old 07-05-2005, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reina
Can't there be honor killings against men to? like in umm more delicate situations?
As mentioned in my previous post, off course there can be. But most of the time when a person’s life is taken whether through an “honor killing” or a “murder” on a global basis, the victim is usually a girl/woman (unless the statistics have changed during the past couple of years).

Quote:
Originally Posted by papillon
Well, this is one Web site's point of view. But the problem with "honor" killings (vs. crimes of passion) is that the perpetrators are protected from being punished as ordinary murderers by penal code articles that get them off the hook. And, sorry, you just cannot correctly claim that that is what happens to people in North American countries who commit these crimes. They are punished, socially and criminally. They are not protected by penal code articles, and they most certainly are not celebrated as home town heroes.
Actually the examples that I stated in reference to “Western” shot gun and car hit and run killings/murders were not mentioned in the website (I stated in my previous post that I got “much” of my info from the site but not “all” of it). Therefore the examples were stories that I’d seen on the news and were my personal interpretations of “types” of honor killings (again as mentioned in my previous message in regards to forms of the practice). The reasons why I believe that they are “forms” of honor killings is because a man/women takes the life of their spouse after finding out about their adulterous affair(s) and commits the act in order to untarnish their reputation. As for disregarding penal code articles and bringing the suspects to justice in North America most of the time that’s true, but seriously its not as if sorts of corrupt procedures as well as bribery don’t occur in some cases in the US and/or Canada (or any other part of the world in general), especially if the suspect’s extremely well off on a financial basis. In regards to murderers being celebrated as hometown heroes, who says that that can’t happen in parts of the “West” especially by some family members, friends and/or neighbors etc. (regardless of their ethnic, cultural and/or religious backgrounds) of the suspect/culprit in general? And off course its not as if every family member, friend and/or neighbor etc. (regardless of their ethnic, cultural and/or religious backgrounds) of a person who commits the act in parts of some non-“Western” countries, think of the idea of killing an innocent person as “honorable” in any way.

P.S. I forgot to mention in my previous post that in order to accuse a person of commiting adultery (in regards the the Quran), there have to be a certain amount of witnesses who saw the person in the act of committing "the activity" and if a person admits to the "crime" but is extremely sorry for their actions, that's another way to avoid being punished.
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  #499  
Old 07-05-2005, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbette
Excuse me--they may happen here but the murderers get punished---no one here is allowed to murder women just because they are women, and that happens in the Muslim world every day. And Christianity certainly does not teach this as Islam does. What lies are you referring to?
First of all there is no such thing as a "Muslim world" or "Western world" considering that we do all live on the same planet. Muslims are not "aliens" nor are Westerners the "norm" (btw there are Muslims who live within the "Western world" as well). Secondly, while honor killings are allowed to be practiced within "parts" of certain so-called Muslim countries (as well as certain non-Muslims ones), they are illegal in others. Actually some (mainly republican) anti-abortion politicians in the States have allowed, are permitting and/or are planning on allowing individual women to be killed just because they're women, by forcing them to go through unsafe abortions in the streets. And third of all, have you ever even studied Islam (and particularly the Quran) before in order to know what Islam does and does not teach, especially in reference to women?

Ok ... taking a deep breath and blowing off steam and now I will stay on topic.
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  #500  
Old 07-05-2005, 01:08 PM
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EXCUSE ME! But let me make clear what I am trying to say! Honor killings happen are performed in N. America by people who comes from those places where honor killings are the norm. THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR OUR LAWS AND WAY WE TREAT WOMEN. There is no freagin' conspiracy theory here! And it is murder b/c it is wrong and is punishable here in N. America!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nilah
I have to agree with Reina. Honor killings do happen in the Western World,too. It is a global promblem. Unfortunately the US is trying to make people believe that there is only in the Arab World in order to denigrate the Muslim people. It is sad how many people believe the US government's lies. There are honor killings everywhere in N. america, Europe , Australia and so on . I hear almost every week that European or American man killed his wife and children. Anyway honor killings often happen to Christian people as well. But that is called murder in the Western World as Reina said.
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