Rania's Role as Queen of Jordan

[Alexandria]

QR is already a Doctor.

What is she a doctor of? This is the first I've ever heard of Rania being a doctor.

Do you mean that she was granted an honourary degree at some university and is now a doctor in that sense? Or did she get a medical degree that I've never heard of?

 

[Nad25]

Rania is an ideal Queen.
She has raised the proifle of her country in a way that others have failed to. Moreover she has raised he voices of Arab women and muslim women, more so than any other female Arab. This is not a woman born into a life of luxury, she is from a typical middle-class household. She is "normal" in every sense.
So she wears expensive clothing,that's part of the job. Does anyone think she actually has to pay for them. She probably is given the majoirty by designers. After all which other woman in the Middle East is so well watched?
Kudos to her, may she continue her good work.

I second that! Back in the 70s Queen Alia was dressesd by the best designers Valentino, Queen Noor mentioned it in her book (Leap of Faith), and he dressed Queen Noor as well.

 

[cute_girl]

QR is already a Doctor?

according to the information given in her official web site she only has a BS degree in business.if she held a doctorate degree she would have mentioned it.

 

[julial]

What is she a doctor of? This is the first I've ever heard of Rania being a doctor.

Do you mean that she was granted an honourary degree at some university and is now a doctor in that sense? Or did she get a medical degree that I've never heard of?

she was granted an honourary degree from at least one university and is now a doctor.

 

[Alexandria]

she was granted an honourary degree from at least one university and is now a doctor.

To be fair and to give credit to those who have spent seven or eight years (or more) in actual medical school and are real doctors, Rania is not a doctor in this sense. It is an honourary degree for a reason -- it is bestowed on a recognizable or famous individual to bring attention to a university or college and sometimes to recognize the life achievements of the individual getting such an award.

Plenty of famous people have been given honourary degrees at many famous education institutions but no one goes around calling them Doctor or considers them such. Canadian comedian (of Austin Powers fame) has been granted an honourary degree but no one goes around (nor does he request) taht anyone call him Dr. Mike Meyers. Queen Elizabeth II must have dozens of honorary degrees by now but no one is trumpeting her as Dr. Elizabeth.

It would be much better to give Rania credit for work she actually did, rather than just honouring her because she is the Queen of Jordan. If you removed the title of Queen of Jordan from her, and she were merely another Jordanian citizen, would she still have been bestowed such an honorary degree? And would she be considered a "Doctor" in that sense?

 

[Alisa]

It would be much better to give Rania credit for work she actually did, rather than just honouring her because she is the Queen of Jordan. If you removed the title of Queen of Jordan from her, and she were merely another Jordanian citizen, would she still have been bestowed such an honorary degree? And would she be considered a "Doctor" in that sense?

The issue isn't "cut and dry" so to speak. Rania does the work that she does because she is the Queen of Jordan and the work that she does is for the most part expected of her. Thus an honorary doctorate awarded to Rania commends the work she has done as Queen of Jordan. One cannot really seperate the two, if you get what I mean.

 

[sommone]

In general she is a very well dressed woman with an expensive clothing budget, but she is clearly a woman with substance.

Yes, she is a woman with substance despite what others would have us to believe. I don't buy for one second that she feels inferior, and that's why she wants to look nice. It's sad really how some dismiss her accomplishments just because she is a well dressed woman. I could understand this argument if the only thing she did was wear designer clothing, and there was nothing more to her than her looks but there is much more to Rania than that. You don't have to search long and hard to see what she has done since becoming Queen.

 

[yazz]

The World Economic Forum is an ultraliberal movement. I don't understand how can a queen of a third world shares their ideas. Whatever they do is always against the poor countries and Africa (where she never goes contrary to all european princess, especially Mathilde). She imagines she is strong enough to change their mind, but she is just their political alibi. I hope one day she will understand and join Porto Alegre forum.

 

[maryshawn]

Reina, you make an interesting point. I honestly don't know. I think she has to walk a fine line here but she is trying to bring attention to the issue--and that in itself is a contribution toward hopefully stopping it one day.

QR is between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, she must balance the sensitivities of those who live in Jordan; on the other, she has to appear westernized in order to get the attention, interest and funding for issues affecting the country from western nations. Maybe it's my imagination but I'm seeing less "glitz" in terms of attire since the birth of Prince Hashem. She seems more purposeful and focused on portraying a substantive image.

I'd read an interesting quote in the Vanity Fair article on Queen Rania in 2001; something to the effect she is able to be an activist Queen because of QN's setting the stage by also being an activist Queen but she "has even more power because of her relationship with her husband." I've read it a number of times and it implies her relationship with KA is seen as much more of a partnership than the one QN and KH had. And it's also an excellent observation that Rania married a man who was a "long shot" to become King one day. When she says it was a huge change and something they were not immediately prepared for, one has to believe her. Because back in the 90's when they married, every indication pointed toward KH being succeeded by then Crown Prince Hassan. So the learning curve had to be enormous. It's to her credit she has learned to endure all the scrutiny and appears so poised with international leaders and the wide variety of groups she now interacts with.

But the JRF still needs support from the bedoins who probably commit honor killings. Do you think she is trying to be careful to keep their support, so that is why she is not addressing this issue?

But I agree with you all. I think she is doing a good job. Sure I have had my share of negative comments, but I have grown up a bit from my PHamzah crush days. Anyway it is nice to go on from old times and go on with the new. But I hope PHashim has a prominent role in thr royal family. He is working so hard.

 

[Reina]

I agree Maryshanw. I don't think she was looking to b/c Queen. I think she was happy and honored to b/c a Princess. From commoner to a member of the JRF, that was seen as the good life.

 

[lovy_bear]

Hi there,

Since we’re currently on the subject, here’s a little info on honor killings (just to clear up some misconceptions).

Definition: When a man attacks and kills a female relative of his (using the “heat of passion” defense), whose indiscretions or misfortunes (i.e. alleged pre-marital relations, adultery or rape) have brought shame onto (some of) her family members.

Non-Islamic and/or non-Middle Eastern origins - (practiced in):

Ancient Babylon (1700 BCE) – The Codes of Hammurabi (one of the earliest set of laws discovered) focus on the idea of how a woman’s virginity belongs to her family.

Peru (1200 BCE – 1532 ACE) – Alleged adulterers were punished by having their hands and feet tied to a wall and being left to starve to death. A man was allowed to kill his wife if he caught or suspected her of having an extra-marital affair, while if a woman caught or suspected her husband of doing the same thing and killed him, she was given the death penalty.

The Valley of Mexico (150 BCE –1521 ACE) – The punishment for female adultery was death by stoning or strangulation (only after a husband could prove the offence).

Ancient Rome – If a woman was caught having an extra-marital affair by her husband he was allowed to kill her, while she wasn’t allowed to lay a finger on him if she caught him in the process of committing the exact same “activity”.

Some past Jewish and Christian individuals/states – interpreted their scriptures as to prescribing death by punishment for alleged pre-marital relations and adultery.

Different countries in which honor killings are presently practiced to a certain extent:

(In parts of) Bangladesh, Brazil, Ecuador, Egypt, Great Britain, India, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Pakistan, Morocco, Sweden, Turkey and Uganda.

I would argue that individual non-“Muslim” men/women living within North America or any other region/country, whether or not its mentioned above commit (types of) honor killings (in reference to women) in this day and age as well, in order to “untarnish their dignity/reputations” after they find out that their spouse is having an adulterous affair. I can’t imagine how many stories I’ve heard of this type of activity taking place in especially parts of North America (i.e. when a man takes a shot gun and goes after his wife and sometimes even his own children or when a woman drives a car over her husband: after becoming aware of their mate’s extra-marital affair and killing them in the process).

The men (and sometimes women) who commit them: come from diverse national, ethnic and cultural backgrounds and/or associate themselves as followers of different religions. In especially some economically developing countries, they usually come from “lower” socio-economic backgrounds (not to say that “all” financially poor individuals are violent in that sense), although there are a few exceptions and at times a middle-class or upper-class male could very well commit the act as well.

So in conclusion, honor killings are and have been practiced by individuals of especially different national, ethnic, cultural and/or so-called religious backgrounds presently as well as all throughout history (especially going back 2000 years). So honor killings are not: geographically confined to parts of Jordan, acts primarily carried out by some Jordanian citizens (or even “all” Bedouins for that matter), nor are they an Islamic practice in general. The Quran literally states that both a man and woman are not given the death penalty as a punishment for committing adultery (especially considering that specific verses speak of who an adulterer/adulteress should or should not be allowed to marry, which would ultimately mean that they would have to be “alive” in order to marry or not marry someone). In fact the Quran says that if accused of committing adultery, a woman must stand up for herself in court and if she states that she did not commit the act, then the court officials have no other choice but to take her for her word and she’s basically spared of a punishment. Some believe that the same method (in regards to the Quran) is carried out in reference to allegations of pre-marital sex as well.

And yes I agree, any royal and/or politician should attempt to abolish this practice, regardless of who commits it or which country it takes place in.

I got much of my info on this post from the following link:

The Biological Roots of Heat-of-Passion Crimes and Honor Killings

 

[Reina]

Can't there be honor killings against men to? like in umm more delicate situations?

 

[papillon]

I would argue that individual non-“Muslim” men/women living within North America or any other region/country, whether or not its mentioned above commit (types of) honor killings (in reference to women) in this day and age as well, in order to “untarnish their dignity/reputations” after they find out that their spouse is having an adulterous affair. I can’t imagine how many stories I’ve heard of this type of activity taking place in especially parts of North America (i.e. when a man takes a shot gun and goes after his wife and sometimes even his own children or when a woman drives a car over her husband: after becoming aware of their mate’s extra-marital affair and killing them in the process).

Well, this is one Web site's point of view. But the problem with "honor" killings (vs. crimes of passion) is that the perpetrators are protected from being punished as ordinary murderers by penal code articles that get them off the hook. And, sorry, you just cannot correctly claim that that is what happens to people in North American countries who commit these crimes. They are punished, socially and criminally. They are not protected by penal code articles, and they most certainly are not celebrated as home town heroes.

 

[papillon]

Can't there be honor killings against men to?

Yes. There were at least two in Jordan in 2004.

 

[Reina]

Honor killings do happen in N. America. But it is certainly not what the site from post 55 says. That is called murder!

 

[nilah]

Honor killings do happen in N. America. But it is certainly not what the site from post 55 says. That is called murder!

I have to agree with Reina. Honor killings do happen in the Western World,too. It is a global promblem. Unfortunately the US is trying to make people believe that there is only in the Arab World in order to denigrate the Muslim people. It is sad how many people believe the US government's lies. There are honor killings everywhere in N. america, Europe , Australia and so on . I hear almost every week that European or American man killed his wife and children. Anyway honor killings often happen to Christian people as well. But that is called murder in the Western World as Reina said.

 

[Bubbette]

I have to agree with Reina. Honor killings do happen in the Western World,too. It is a global promblem. Unfortunately the US is trying to make people believe that there is only in the Arab World in order to denigrate the Muslim people. It is sad how many people believe the US government's lies. There are honor killings everywhere in N. america, Europe , Australia and so on . I hear almost every week that European or American man killed his wife and children. Anyway honor killings often happen to Christian people as well. But that is called murder in the Western World as Reina said.

Excuse me--they may happen here but the murderers get punished---no one here is allowed to murder women just because they are women, and that happens in the Muslim world every day. And Christianity certainly does not teach this as Islam does. What lies are you referring to?

 

[lovy_bear]

Can't there be honor killings against men to? like in umm more delicate situations?

As mentioned in my previous post, off course there can be. But most of the time when a person’s life is taken whether through an “honor killing” or a “murder” on a global basis, the victim is usually a girl/woman (unless the statistics have changed during the past couple of years).

Well, this is one Web site's point of view. But the problem with "honor" killings (vs. crimes of passion) is that the perpetrators are protected from being punished as ordinary murderers by penal code articles that get them off the hook. And, sorry, you just cannot correctly claim that that is what happens to people in North American countries who commit these crimes. They are punished, socially and criminally. They are not protected by penal code articles, and they most certainly are not celebrated as home town heroes.

Actually the examples that I stated in reference to “Western” shot gun and car hit and run killings/murders were not mentioned in the website (I stated in my previous post that I got “much” of my info from the site but not “all” of it). Therefore the examples were stories that I’d seen on the news and were my personal interpretations of “types” of honor killings (again as mentioned in my previous message in regards to forms of the practice). The reasons why I believe that they are “forms” of honor killings is because a man/women takes the life of their spouse after finding out about their adulterous affair(s) and commits the act in order to untarnish their reputation. As for disregarding penal code articles and bringing the suspects to justice in North America most of the time that’s true, but seriously its not as if sorts of corrupt procedures as well as bribery don’t occur in some cases in the US and/or Canada (or any other part of the world in general), especially if the suspect’s extremely well off on a financial basis. In regards to murderers being celebrated as hometown heroes, who says that that can’t happen in parts of the “West” especially by some family members, friends and/or neighbors etc. (regardless of their ethnic, cultural and/or religious backgrounds) of the suspect/culprit in general? And off course its not as if every family member, friend and/or neighbor etc. (regardless of their ethnic, cultural and/or religious backgrounds) of a person who commits the act in parts of some non-“Western” countries, think of the idea of killing an innocent person as “honorable” in any way.

P.S. I forgot to mention in my previous post that in order to accuse a person of commiting adultery (in regards the the Quran), there have to be a certain amount of witnesses who saw the person in the act of committing "the activity" and if a person admits to the "crime" but is extremely sorry for their actions, that's another way to avoid being punished.

 

[lovy_bear]

Excuse me--they may happen here but the murderers get punished---no one here is allowed to murder women just because they are women, and that happens in the Muslim world every day. And Christianity certainly does not teach this as Islam does. What lies are you referring to?

First of all there is no such thing as a "Muslim world" or "Western world" considering that we do all live on the same planet. Muslims are not "aliens" nor are Westerners the "norm" (btw there are Muslims who live within the "Western world" as well). Secondly, while honor killings are allowed to be practiced within "parts" of certain so-called Muslim countries (as well as certain non-Muslims ones), they are illegal in others. Actually some (mainly republican) anti-abortion politicians in the States have allowed, are permitting and/or are planning on allowing individual women to be killed just because they're women, by forcing them to go through unsafe abortions in the streets. And third of all, have you ever even studied Islam (and particularly the Quran) before in order to know what Islam does and does not teach, especially in reference to women?

Ok ... taking a deep breath and blowing off steam and now I will stay on topic.

 

[Reina]

EXCUSE ME! But let me make clear what I am trying to say! Honor killings happen are performed in N. America by people who comes from those places where honor killings are the norm. THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR OUR LAWS AND WAY WE TREAT WOMEN. There is no freagin' conspiracy theory here! And it is murder b/c it is wrong and is punishable here in N. America!!!

I have to agree with Reina. Honor killings do happen in the Western World,too. It is a global promblem. Unfortunately the US is trying to make people believe that there is only in the Arab World in order to denigrate the Muslim people. It is sad how many people believe the US government's lies. There are honor killings everywhere in N. america, Europe , Australia and so on . I hear almost every week that European or American man killed his wife and children. Anyway honor killings often happen to Christian people as well. But that is called murder in the Western World as Reina said.

 

[marlene]

To get back to the theme of this thread,I think that Queen Rania has done a wonderful job increasing the visibility of jordan and its' women.She is a more westernized arab women then some, but none the less there are actually many women in the middle east just like her.She is well educated and articulate and presents herself well.If she gets photographed alot by the press it is because she is lovely to look at and dressing her in traditional clothes or even a garbage bag would make no difference ,she would still get photographed.She represents who she is and she should not have to dress to other peoples expectations.The arab world has many different women with different styles and customs and there is room for all of them.before anyone starts to tell me I don't know what it is like in the middle east let me tell you I have lived there and totally loved it.I had friends who wore the hijab and others who didn't,but they were all muslim and all arab equally.

 

[Little_star]

Personally I think Rania is an excellent Queen who represents the modern muslim woman, Arab or non-Arab.
It is so refreshing to see a muslim woman being recognised for her intelligence, work and style at a time when we are far too often portrayed as oppressed or needy. We are not all doormats, we aren't all cloaked in black and we are well-educated with extensive knowledge of the world and it's wonderful to see Rania embody these qualities.

"there are several parts of Quran about obligation of hijab and my advice to Rania is that if you consider yourself a moslem go and read Quran in order not to say false things and if you're ashamed of your religoun go and convert to another religoun instead of distortioning Quran(which is a big sin,its punishment is death in islam)."

There is nothing in the Qur'an that explicitly says a muslim woman should wear a hijab. Moreover a piece of square cloth on a woman's head does not make her a better person. Some of the most hypocritical, unkind, dishonest women I have come across have worn a hijab.

"If you look at queen Noor she is almost always wearing traditional Jordanian dress"
That is Noor's choice. You know that thing we all have, a choice. When King Hussein was alive you rarely saw Noor in traditional kaftans and the like. Moreover, when so many Jordanian women don't even wear traditional clothing anymore why should Rania? One of the things I've liked about her is that most of her evening/gala outfits tend to have a Eastern flair to them.

Moreover she has no fear or qualm with discussing and bringing to the fore challenging and controversial issues like women's rights and child abuse. Both topics are taboo in many muslims countries, especially conservative Arab socieities. Again and again she has spoekn out on these issues.

I am so thankful to see such an articulate and vocal woman being snapped by the media, for not only bringing her coutnry inot the limelight but for raising the profile of muslim women worldwide.

 

[Alexandria]

Please get back on topic.

I saw the initial history lesson on honour killings and the definition of terms and subsequent comments but let them go as I thought maybe this time we could all behave like adults and learn from each other about a matter that is very sensitive in nature.

Only a few hours later I am coming back to find members "yelling" at each other by typing all in caps.

If you can discuss honour killings in the framework of what Queen Rania is doing to promote awareness of the issue or programs she might support to put an end to honour killings, then fine. But otherwise, the matter is considered off topic as given a little freedom to discuss things, members of this thread cannot be respectful or civil to each other.

If this topic continues to stray, it will be closed.

Alexandria
Royal Forums Administrator

 

[cute_girl]

Excuse me--they may happen here but the murderers get punished---no one here is allowed to murder women just because they are women, and that happens in the Muslim world every day. And Christianity certainly does not teach this as Islam does. What lies are you referring to?

honor killing has got nothing to do with Islam,and Islam never teaches or encoureges such a thing,it's the culture and the murdereres only use Islam as an excuse.

 

[cute_girl]

There is nothing in the Qur'an that explicitly says a muslim woman should wear a hijab. Moreover a piece of square cloth on a woman's head does not make her a better person. Some of the most hypocritical, unkind, dishonest women I have come across have worn a hijab.

unless you're not a muslim please dont give comments on what you dont know,there are several ayat in Quran which explicitly says a muslim woman MUST wear hijab.

 

[cute_girl]

ok back on topic...

 

[Little_star]

cute_girl, I've read the Qur'an many times, there is nothing that strictly says a woman must wear a hijab, there are ayahs that suggest modesty but no specific or strict mandate.

 

[Lara]

cute_girl, I've read the Qur'an many times, there is nothing that strictly says a woman must wear a hijab, there are ayahs that suggest modesty but no specific or strict mandate.

you obviously missed 24:31!

 

[nounours]

cute_girl, I've read the Qur'an many times, there is nothing that strictly says a woman must wear a hijab, there are ayahs that suggest modesty but no specific or strict mandate.

Little_Star is correct--NOWHERE in the Qur'an does it require women to wear hijab, that is simply an interpretation of of different people. The Qur'an DOES however say dress modestly.

 

[amina1]

When these verses were revealed, the prophet explained them, and specifically he concluded covering the hair, for it's part of the woman's beauty, he even mentioned the length of the garment, and for his wives, they covered even their faces, for no man is allowed to see them, or marry them after the prophet, they're called, 'mothers of the beleivers'
SORRRRRRRYYYYY, that's off topic.