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  #81  
Old 12-01-2003, 03:39 AM
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Pls, all of u, do read - Nine parts of a desire- by G. Brooks. The chapter about Q Noor, it's called- A Queen- QN was also used as a scapegoat when things in Jordan were bad, now it's Q Rania's turn. Btw, P Ali has been very active against Honour Killings the last few years. He's quite serious about his fight.
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  #82  
Old 12-01-2003, 04:51 AM
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in Newsweek article, there are more serious things against KA and QR, being not down-to-earth, that this story of gold shoes :

Other royal actions are more consequential. Both Abdullah and Rania, for instance, have tried to guide debate about Jordan's troubled economy, and both have taken criticism for it. In a country that has 30 percent unemployment, growing imports and falling exports, some believe the king and queen are out of touch. Many homes in Amman don't have water, the rural areas suffer grinding poverty and most of the country lacks the necessary infrastructure to attract serious investment, many experts say. Yet the king tours high-tech meccas like Singapore and Silicon Valley, and the queen has been a big proponent of bringing technology to schools. "We need to fix the Old Economy before we get to the New Economy," says political analyst Radwan Abdullah. "The idea of making Jordan a high-tech hub is ridiculous."
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  #83  
Old 12-01-2003, 04:53 AM
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  #84  
Old 12-01-2003, 08:38 AM
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Honor Killing is part of the culture not of the regime. You can't truely believe that if the law was passed making honor killings illegal that they would simply go away or even decrease drastically. Until the mind set of the people is changed then honor killings will not be thought of as wrong by the majority. I do not believe that having Ali or any Royal be more critical of Abdullah's regime will change that. In a perfect world, you may believe that there would be fewer honor killings if there was a free society. Yet Honor Killing is part of the culture. It doesn't matter if their is a dictator or anarchy or a totally free society, until the mind set is changed then they will continue. I truely believe that Ali and other Royals are attempting do that.
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  #85  
Old 12-01-2003, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pegassuss2525@Dec 1st, 2003 - 8:38 am
Honor Killing is part of the culture not of the regime. You can't truely believe that if the law was passed making honor killings illegal that they would simply go away or even decrease drastically. Until the mind set of the people is changed then honor killings will not be thought of as wrong by the majority.
I totally agree.
Honour killings are a part of many cultures including some parts of Pakistan for example. This horrible practice is a remnant of ancient practices and beliefs.
It is unfortunate that people continue to practice something so terrible and hide behind religion to justify it.
Getting rid of something like honour killings is not just about human rights..you've got to change the way people think and convince them that there's no justification for such a crime. I think Queen Rania's attempt to get religious leaders to denounce honour killings is quite admirable.
People who commit such crimes should receive the punishment they deserve but most of them just get away with killing their women because society usually approves of such actions.
Its obviously as much a question about ideology as it is about human rights.
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  #86  
Old 12-01-2003, 12:36 PM
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  #87  
Old 12-01-2003, 04:11 PM
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Sean - could you please clarify what you mean by
Quote:
I am well aware that honour killings are part of the state.
Wouldn't want to be accused of misinterpreting your words!
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  #88  
Old 12-01-2003, 04:29 PM
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  #89  
Old 12-01-2003, 04:50 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply, Sean. Until reading that, I had always agreed with your posts which is why I gave you the benefit of the doubt. I was sure you couldn't really have meant that! A missing word makes all the difference and you are now once again clear, objective and succinct!

With regard to human rights in the Middle East, are you aware of any web based material focusing specifically on the Gulf?
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  #90  
Old 12-01-2003, 07:20 PM
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"Oh, and when are you going to answer the numerous other question's I've posted to you throughout this thread? Indeed, assidiously avoiding answering them does not do anything for your pro-Rania 'argument' (and I use the term loosely). "

I am not certain what you mean about other questions directed towards me. I don't have a Pro Rania stance per se, I just don't believe that you should condem her if you do not know how much she truely spends.

When you stated that Ali should be more critical toward the regime, I took your words to mean that he should be more critical because Abdullah has not done more to stop the honor killings. You did explain what you meant in you next post. I also know that not all Jordanian families ingage in honor killings but it is a strongly held belief that it is justified. If the mind set of the people doesn't change to believe that Honor Killings are wrong then the outcry won't be there against it. That is a proven fact.

As for your issue with my "Cut and Paste" method, perhaps you would be kind enough to tell me how to do the Quotes correctly? You posted earlier that you didn't want personal attacks started but I feel that it has. I was not attempting to twist your words put simply stating my opinion and what I understood you to be saying. I think everyone here has a right to post their opinions. If you feel the need to pick mine apart and attack them, then that is your right. But please do not insult my intelligence or my knowledge on the Middle East.
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  #91  
Old 12-01-2003, 07:39 PM
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  #92  
Old 12-01-2003, 07:44 PM
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  #93  
Old 12-01-2003, 07:51 PM
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Many thanks - I am in research mode for my dissertation at the moment and as the saying goes I want to 'hit the books before they hit back'!
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  #94  
Old 12-02-2003, 05:01 AM
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I agree the jordanian royal family talk a lot about honor killings when they are in foreign countries. But what did they make inside Jordan ? They charged the parliament not passing a law but there were no parliament at all in Jordan during 2 years!! So, during 2 years KA and his government had done whatever they want without any parliamentary poll.
Now there is a parliament, without any islamists thanks to an unrepresentative electoral cutting, with loyal Beduins who are voting whatever the royal family want thanks to corruption. So I hope they will pass a law soon.
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  #95  
Old 12-02-2003, 05:45 AM
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  #96  
Old 12-02-2003, 07:57 AM
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If you've still got something to say to me Sean, please address it to me directly.
My opinions expressed in other posts weren't addressed to you.
I've got exams coming up and I simply dont have any time to waste on arguments that dont go beyond repetitive rhetoric.
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  #97  
Old 12-02-2003, 08:11 AM
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  #98  
Old 12-04-2003, 02:08 PM
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I understand that Queen Rania stressed at the begininng of her becoming queen that she didn't own her own tiara, the she borrowed the one the once belong to Queen Alia from Princess Haya (the daughter of QAlia) during her corronation. But I know when the king and queen visited the UK on an official visit in 2001 (I think) that Rania was wearing a new tiara--there's a also a portrait of the couple (see attached photo from Magickal Rania yahoo group) where Rania is wearing the new tiara. In anycase--is that tiara on lone or does she really own it?

The reason I ask this is because the queen was very adament at the begining of her reign that she was not spending a lot of money despite being called the, "Hand bag queen" by many of the Jordanian people. So then why would she have bought a new tiara (if in fact it is hers) if she wanted to counteract what her people were accusing her of--spending too much money on clothes and jewels even though Jordan doesn't have the financial resourses to support her spending.
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  #99  
Old 12-04-2003, 04:03 PM
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this is from the HARPER's interview....

From the moment of Rania's coronation in 1999 - an event for which
she wore a borrowed tiara ("I couldn't be bothered to go and buy
one," she explains, "because, you know you don't get to wear them all
that often")
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  #100  
Old 12-04-2003, 07:42 PM
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Nicole, a lot of Queens own more than one tiara. Usually they're passed from one generation to the next. With the Jordan Royal Family it seems this is not the case and Rania didn't inherit a tiara. In the past she used to borrow one from Princess Haya. In the run-up to the coronation I would say she really didn't have the time to buy one but in the last 4 years she's acquired two tiaras, one worn on tne State Visit to the UK and one to Sweden. I don't see anything wrong with that afterall she is a Queen and needs to represent her country accordingly. What she's said in the past is in the past, maybe borrowing the tiara from P Haya wasn't that practical, plus it is Haya's tiara and very special to her as it used to belong to her late mother Queen Alia.

Furthermore to some of the criticism about Rania's spending, I would say that there are people who can never be pleased. The average poor Jordanian who it would seem would SO object to the Queen's spending doesn't own a TV set or a computer so how could he or she know what the Queen wears. In Jordan on visits to poor areas, the Queen always dresses aappropriately. The people who DO seem to object so vehemently are the richer Jordanians.

TC
Barbara
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Abdullah Rules (King Abdullah of Jordan) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Abdullah_Rules/
Magickal Rania (Queen Rania of Jordan) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Magickal_Rania/
Ladies of the Crescent (Prominent Arab & Muslim Ladies) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ladies_of_the_Crescent/
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