King Abdullah And Queen Rania - discussing their projects

[Abraxas]

Greetings friends,

I would very much like to discuss King Abdullah from a variety of angles. Is he doing a good job ruling Jordan? How solid is his monarchy? Is he too pro-western? Are there any other Arab leaders like him? What are his best qualities as king? Is he capable of leading the Middle East into a better future?

[alia_musallam]

I would very much like to discuss King Abdullah from a variety of angles. Is he doing a good job ruling Jordan? How solid is his monarchy? Is he too pro-western? Are there any other Arab leaders like him? What are his best qualities as king? Is he capable of leading the Middle East into a better future?

1)alrightish
2)not very, mainly backed by a handful of rich and powerful families and the army
3)not too pro-western but he focuses too much on the superficial ways in which we could emulate the west rather than actually solving jordan's problems which would lead to sustainable development. Then we could be as western as we wanted.
4)not as far as i know
5)he looks bouncy?! No,really, the fact that the country is more open than before, and there is less mystery and protocol surrounding the royal court. He does not attempt to be the paternalistic leader that his father was, nor does he assume to have the same charisma (from a not-very-jordanian-of-me viewpoint his father had a tendancy to make the wrong decisions and was a nasty little philanderous man, who we all loved greatly (from the jordanian-patriot side of me)) I think he does essentialy want to make Jordan a better Hashemite Kingdom for the Jordanians, but he just can't quite seem to figure out how to without the threat of losing power to the islamists.
6)Maybe not the ME but Jordan, definitely yes if he stops messing about wasting money putting new computers and internet in schools and instead directs the money towards areas that need it like the health sector, public works etc...

[Bubbette]

You think putting internets and computers in schools is a waste of money? I disagree--the internet and computers are necessary for future development. If Jordanian kids don't grow up with these, they will be at a distinct disadvantage vs the rest of the world. The Arab world has one of the lowest rates of internet access--and it definitely affects commerce and development.

Actually, I read somewhere that Rania's relatives sell computers and so she had a market for them...

I agree with Alia..Not that computers and internet are not good but there are priorities as mentioned like health and food....if you are hungry, lives in poor accommodations and so on, how can u think to use computers. Think about Maslow's hierarchial needs: http://web.utk.edu/~gwynne/maslow.HTM

In all cases, those computers distributed to those areas are serving the profits of Rania's relatives' company..

[rollin_keef]

what is the chances of the Hashemites being overthrown?
what do u mean KH was a nasty little philanderous man?

[alia_musallam]

Exactly, though internet and the latest computers in schools is, i'm sure, a great idea but it's not actually going to change Jordan's underlying problems, in the south of the country the kids using these are suffering from malnourishment and extreme poverty... T

He first has to concentrate on using the infrastrucuture that is in place and developing on it. Jordan has health clinics in every little village but these are chronically understaffed. We have the highest literacy rate in the Middle East (incl. Israel) and should use that to our advantage. There should be more attempts to decentralise development instead of Amman reaping all the benefits. There are already lots of micro-finance schemes which should be propagated.

I think the biggest problem that he faces is still the refugee problem, the camps are administered by UNRWA so he faces the choice of developing all but the camps, or does he apply his modernisation campaign to the camps as well (like pouring lots of money ito a big black hole).

And hell, i didn't learn how to use a computer or the internet at school and i seem to be managing okay. Or am i sub-developed?

[alia_musallam]

Originally posted by rollin_keef@Jan 21st, 2004 - 10:55 pm
what is the chances of the Hashemites being overthrown?
what do u mean KH was a nasty little philanderous man?

I never said that !

He was little, very little in fact... and had loads of affairs... and could be particularly unpleasant! That's what i mean!

As for being overthrown I don't believe it will be... it has powerful backers...

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by alia_musallam@Jan 22nd, 2004 - 3:03 am
As for being overthrown I don't believe it will be... it has powerful backers...

Yeah, well so did the Shah. The backers aren't always going to be there. In fact, over the next twenty years I think we are going to see a major shift.

Personally, I definitely think it will be overthrown if there is another pre-emptive war in the region (or there will be substantial changes), or if peace is made with the Israelis and the Palestinians and the authoritarianism continues in the aftermath of such a peace.

He does have elite support, but that is a quid pro quo and they can turn on him if their needs aren't being met. The military is very loyal (this is his biggest security), but that too can change. Seemingly loyal military men have turned before. Particularly in situations of chaos (like in the aftermath of a war), when the system is weak.

I agree with both Alia AND Bubette with regards to computers and internet. Abdullah's economic policies have been criticized as unrealistic and not in sync with Jordan's realities. Putting internet in schools is not going to solve Jordan's underlying economic problems. However, we are increasingly living in an information age. Although we may have not learnt how to use computers while growing up (although I did), it is more imporant now. Those who do not have access to these skills will be severly disadvantaged in the future. These skills are important in this age of 'outsourcing', multinational corporations, and foreign direct investment. A computer literate generation will add to Jordan's comparative advantage down the road. Due to the lack of natural resources, it really does need this. Just look at India. So many Western firms have their call centres in places like Banglore now.

So, in short, I don't think it can be a one or another. I think computer literacy has to be part of a realistic economic and human development plan -- one which addresses issues such as infrastructure, health, micro-finance, cottage industries, agriculture, etc., as well as education. Jordan has such a high literacy rate and,IMO, computer skills will only add to this. Besides, being connected to the world will, hopefully, lead to a political opening.

Just my late night musings.

[Asma2]

Originally posted by rollin_keef@Jan 21st, 2004 - 10:55 pm
what is the chances of the Hashemites being overthrown?

I hope it will happen soon so foreign people (that believe in democracy not in dictatorship) will able to come to this country and provide necessary help that Jordanians need.

[madonna23]

I hope it will happen soon so foreign people (that believe in democracy not in dictatorship) will able to come to this country and provide necessary help that Jordanians need.

hopefully it won't be foreign people but strong jordanians themselves who will provide the change and help....

foreign people might be suspected of hegemony.

[Bubbette]

I was kind of thinking the same thing; I know that Israel has made some foreign investment in Jordan since the peace treaty, but I don't think they are exactly getting a warm welcome, despite the jobs they bring. Isn't there also a relatively new US-Jordan-Israel free trade zone in the Eilat-Aqaba area?

[Asma2]

Originally posted by madonna23@Jan 22nd, 2004 - 2:33 pm

hopefully it won't be foreign people but strong jordanians themselves who will provide the change and help....

foreign people might be suspected of hegemony.

I was referring to the financial help. Those days Jordan depends heavenly on foreign help and only God knows what happened to ours money ones they are in Jordan. Perhaps our money are use to support the lavishness of JRF.

As far as foreign people might be suspected of hegemony in case with help of overthrowing of JRF, I agree. However, they will need help they cannot do it by themselves. Just recently Abdullah visited Russia and he asked for military help. What for. Luckily, he left empty-handed.

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by Bubbette@Jan 22nd, 2004 - 4:35 pm
I was kind of thinking the same thing; I know that Israel has made some foreign investment in Jordan since the peace treaty, but I don't think they are exactly getting a warm welcome, despite the jobs they bring. Isn't there also a relatively new US-Jordan-Israel free trade zone in the Eilat-Aqaba area?

There is a Jordanian - US Free Trade Agreement (JUSFTA), which came into existence in 2002 (signed in 2001). I think you're referring to the Qualifying Industrial Zone (QIZ) which was established in Ibrid (Jordan) in the late 1990s under the framework of the US-Israeli FTA of 1985, right? Or are you referring to something else? Egypt also qualified as a 'peace partner', but only the former towo countrries really took advantage of the duty free access to the US markets.

Sean

[madonna23]

I was referring to the financial help. Those days Jordan depends heavenly on foreign help and only God knows what happened to ours money ones they are in Jordan. Perhaps our money are use to support the lavishness of JRF.

As far as foreign people might be suspected of hegemony in case with help of overthrowing of JRF, I agree. However, they will need help they cannot do it by themselves. Just recently Abdullah visited Russia and he asked for military help. What for. Luckily, he left empty-handed.

yeah, financial help from the outside would be a must...

but the main "movers and shakers" of the revolution will have to be jordanian, i think...the people must feel that it is their government...that's the only way a revolution can last. that's also on of the reasons why i hope sovereignty returns to iraq as quickly as possible...iraqis can't believe it is the americans who are bringing about a regime-change...the iraqis themselves have to bring the change.

[Asma2]

Originally posted by madonna23@Jan 22nd, 2004 - 5:42 pm

yeah, financial help from the outside would be a must...

but the main "movers and shakers" of the revolution will have to be jordanian, i think...the people must feel that it is their government...that's the only way a revolution can last. that's also on of the reasons why i hope sovereignty returns to iraq as quickly as possible...iraqis can't believe it is the americans who are bringing about a regime-change...the iraqis themselves have to bring the change.

Oh, I agree.

[madonna23]

interesting article...a little over a year old but it still merits attention today...

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/...2002080802.html

here is an example of the reaction to it:

http://www.pmwatch.org/pmw/cast/jordan.asp

the al-jazeera office has since be reopened but i think this is a fine example of king abdullah's "democracy" in jordan.

what you have in king abdullah is a lot of talk and nothing else...anyone can say a bunch of pretty words but few people can actually act on it.

[Bubbette]

Originally posted by Sean.~@Jan 22nd, 2004 - 5:12 pm
There is a Jordanian - US Free Trade Agreement (JUSFTA), which came into existence in 2002 (signed in 2001). I think you're referring to the Qualifying Industrial Zone (QIZ) which was established in Ibrid (Jordan) in the late 1990s under the framework of the US-Israeli FTA of 1985, right? Or are you referring to something else? Egypt also qualified as a 'peace partner', but only the former towo countrries really took advantage of the duty free access to the US markets.

Sean

Yes, the proposed QIZ was what I was thinking of. Thanks for that info.

[Sean.~]

Originally posted by Bubbette+Jan 23rd, 2004 - 1:44 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bubbette @ Jan 23rd, 2004 - 1:44 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Sean.~@Jan 22nd, 2004 - 5:12 pm
There is&nbsp; a Jordanian - US Free Trade Agreement (JUSFTA), which came into existence in 2002 (signed in 2001). I think you're referring to the Qualifying Industrial Zone (QIZ) which was established in Ibrid (Jordan) in&nbsp; the late 1990s under the framework of the US-Israeli FTA of 1985, right? Or are you referring to something else?&nbsp; Egypt also qualified as a 'peace partner', but only the former towo countrries really took advantage of the duty free access to the US markets.

Sean

Yes, the proposed QIZ was what I was thinking of. Thanks for that info. [/b][/quote]
Welcome. It was actually in effect for several years and thus more than a proposal.

[alia_musallam]

To add to the acronyms there's also ASEZ which is the Aqaba Special Economic Zone... ie. Duty free!

I do think that Jordan can become a more developed country under the auspices of the Royal Family, but yes they will have to relax their strangulating grip on the parliament... and i think that economic growth and development aswell as free health and schooling are the priorities, not overthrowal of the monarchy...